Originally Posted by bababouey

This will happen when a society goes into deep debt to finance both. During the housing crisis 10 years ago, home values were far outpacing median income, contributing to the market collapse.



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Originally Posted by SonicFlyer

I want to drive a Laomborghini, but I can't afford it so I don't.....I want to live in San Francisco, but I can't afford it, so I don't.

Originally Posted by Duffman

Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on which side you're on, student loans can't be defaulted and the money that backs them has been spread and baked into so many other things that they'll likely never cause a crash like the '08 recession. This is great if you don't have any loans and don't want a recession, but this is terrible if you have student loans because the debt load makes it significantly more difficult to get a home loan, especially if you miss some payments. Considering people take these loans before they get a degree or have a job lined up, that can happen easily. Since home ownership is the primary method for building generational wealth, pushing some families further down the socio-economic ladder out of the middle class and at least stunting the growth of pretty much all college-graduates within the past 10 years or so.

Originally Posted by Duffman

When did you go to college, because you're dismissing a huge problem. College costs more today than it did when you went and that money has to come from somewhere.

Let's do the math and say you're working 20 hrs a week at $15 an hour, which is actually a really good job for a full time student. That's about $11,500 if you work year-round, after taxes.

The avg in-state public university tuition '19-'20 was over $10k. So that 'really good job' may not even cover your tuition in half the states. And this is for in-state, public:
https://research.collegeboard.org/tr...itutions-state
Now throw in rent, food, internet (required by university), phone, utilities, transportation, additional university fees; all of that slack has to be made up with debt. If you're living on $20k/yr living expenses, which is the same QoL as a first year regional FO at the worst part of the Lost Decade, and it takes you 5 years to graduate, that's $100k in debt. That's a $1000/mo loan payment, $14,400 taken off whatever pre-tax salary you'll make every year, until you're 37. And if you want to go out-of-state, or to a private school, forget about it. I haven't met a Riddle dude with less than 6 figures of debt.

Conversely, in 1995 avg tuition, room, and board, adjusted for today's dollars was $7,000
https://research.collegeboard.org/tr...itutions-state
So that same job that could still easily run you into 6 figures of debt nowadays would've covered everything, plus a $4500 gold-plated trip to Europe every year, in 1995.

I managed to pay for college with a scholarship, 4 other roommates in a 3 bedroom apartment, walking to class, and literally brewing my own beer in my closet because it was cheaper than Coors at the grocery store. But I did realize that I was the exception, not the rule, and the system has completely ****ed the middle-class millennials. Colleges are being run like a for-profit industry where they consistently make bigger profits and reinvest it into themselves like Amazon, and I really doubt it's improving the quality of education that we're all paying more for. But it's the price of admission for a middle class white collar job, they know they have unlimited demand, parents and educators all blindly push college without looking at the price tag that has insidiously gotten ridiculous, and nobody is sounding alarm bells. To make it even worse, universities sell themselves like it's an experience where you find yourself and the ROI will always work out, as long as you get any degree. Bull****. They're used car salesmen trying to push kids into the cheapest degree programs for the university, which coincidentally are the most useless degrees. And once they're out the door, they don't care what happens to them because the loans can't be defaulted and as long as they get any ****ty job to pay off said loan they can say "xx% of graduates had a job within 3 months of graduation," even though they still live with their parents because their student loan payment is more than a 2 bedroom apartment.

Originally Posted by Duffman

Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on which side you're on, student loans can't be defaulted and the money that backs them has been spread and baked into so many other things that they'll likely never cause a crash like the '08 recession. This is great if you don't have any loans and don't want a recession, but this is terrible if you have student loans because the debt load makes it significantly more difficult to get a home loan, especially if you miss some payments. Considering people take these loans before they get a degree or have a job lined up, that can happen easily. Since home ownership is the primary method for building generational wealth, this at a minimum, stunts the growth of middle class families, and for some, pushes them out of the middle class altogether.

Originally Posted by Stoked27

Too bad we can't get the universities to co-sign on the government loans. We'd see the useless/overly expensive degrees start to correct themselves really fast.

Originally Posted by NE_Pilot

You are blaming the colleges when they are simply responding to the incentives presented and responding to student demands (i.e. larger dorm rooms, more services on campus, etc.). No one gets denied a student loan, no matter the price or ability to repay because the government makes it so (they hold 90% of the student loan market). If the student loan market was not dominated by the government, prices would come down naturally as banks would not take the risk to lend mortgage sized loans to students who can’t repay. The price would come down dramatically, even with the irrational “requirements” that employers place on college degrees.

Originally Posted by bababouey

There is an education bubble coming, Elon musk has talked about it. The student loan issue will snowball out of control. Our children have been told they must go to college, no matter the cost to be a viable human being. Income post college, job availability and future risk to credit are rarely discussed, if at all, they are brainwashed early to think they must go to college.

I would love to teach our youth about home ownership, investing, going to jobs that actually have a market, but that’s probably racist somehow.


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Originally Posted by Duffman

The universities are playing the cards they're dealt, but there's a lot they could be doing to help the situation too, and they're not. They're not the ones left holding the bag though. I get they're trying to grow their brand, but because of the blind public trust and the general naivete of 18 year old kids, especially with finances, they've turned into a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Also, the only requirements for a university are that they provide accredited degrees. The scope-creep of providing a larger dorm and a Starbucks in the lobby for Becky is ridiculous. Wants vs needs. Most kids need the accredited degree to stay in the middle class, not pay a premium on BS they don't need.