NE_Pilot

I partially agree with your second statement. It is why I think the “income tax is slavery” argument is relatively weak as opposed to the the “income tax is theft/confiscation” argument.

The counter would of course be that you either must impoverish your or are forced to work more than needed to achieve a given income level. Example, if I were content to have an income of $50k/year I would have to labor above the $50k mark to achieve that, I am forced into labor that I would not freely partake in were it not for the tax. Once again though, I think the stronger argument is that taxes are legalized theft.

SonicFlyer

Well the vast majority of things the government spends money on it shouldn't be, according to the Constitution. So if the government actually focused on the few things it was supposed to do, mostly courts, actual defense, and some policing, then the tax burden on most people would be minimal and honestly quite tolerable.

But to answer your question, user fees are the best option to pay for things. The trick is to make things voluntary as much as possible - that's what it means to live in a free society.

SonicFlyer

Specifically income tax is a form of slavery because you are not being allowed to keep the fruits of your labor.

All taxation is theft, unless of course it is voluntary.

contrails12

I think it’s important to bare in mind that we have proverbially been there and done that wrt public services, laws, and taxes. We went from being the Wild West to what you see today. We have incrementally added things along the way that were determined necessary to the optimal functioning of a civil society.

take firefighting for example. It’s easy to say, you’ll just pay for the firefighting services if you want to. That’s fine and well except for if you neighbor doesn’t want to, or can’t pay. If their place is ablaze and gets outta hand while the firefighters stand there with their arms crossed it eventually may spread to your house.

public education is another one. We cannot compete in the world with an uneducated population. And even if we could do you really want like 1/3 of the population to be illiterate? Can you imagine the scourge on society that would exist without these basic things.

look up the stats of poverty among the elderly prior to social security.

for sure there’s room to debate that some taxes are unfair and some services nonessential or that they could be privatized. But the wholesale abandonment of our current system
of taxation and public services is completely insane.

SonicFlyer

Why does the government have to provide fire fighting? It would be much more efficient and cost effective if there were competition.

Can you imagine just 50 years ago where the US had one of the best education systems on the planet but yet the federal government wasn't involved? Now the federal government has ruined education in this country. It's a joke. Why should bureaucrats and politicians be in charge of something so important as education?

As opposed to now? Social Security doesn't work, it never has. It is theft. Why should I be forced to pay for someone else's retirement? Plus it is insolvent because the government is incapable of doing anything competently.

JamesNoBrakes

I've read a lot of dumb things on the internet, but this is near the top. The point was you have a CHOICE to walk away. A slave, such as in the 1800s, does not. They literally cannot just walk away, whether it's shackles or that law enforcement would find them, punish them, and return them, or worse (like beatings, hangings, etc.).

JamesNoBrakes

It's called social contract, not slavery. You are free to buy your own island outside of the US (there are ones for sale) and set up your own infrastructure, medical services, emergency services, education system, standards and measurements, inspections, health services, national defense, etc. Then you'd be free of the burden of social contract. No one is going to come after you for doing so (unlike a slave running away).

contrails12

We used to do private fire brigades, there’s a reason we stopped.

the government wasn’t involved with schools in the 70s???

Did you check out what the average person lived like prior to SS before posting? Ain’t pretty.

again, there’s a reason why we are where we are. It’s not a plot. It’s learned experience.

I’ve been trying to prod you to see if there’s any over arching philosophy that you adhere, but I don’t think there is one. Just government is bad no matter what with no sound replacement. Basically, you just want to throw stones.

NE_Pilot

You do not have a choice to walk away from paying taxes. You walk away from paying taxes and you will get thrown in prison. You may say, well you can leave the country, but once again you have to pay taxes as long as you are a citizen. So you can renounce citizenship, but again you have to pay taxes to do that as well. So you cannot simply walk away.

So much like it is dumb to say that a slave can choose to run away, it is equally dumb to say that one can choose not to pay taxes. That is the point, in neither situation do you have a choice.

NE_Pilot

Can you please describe this mythical contract? What precisely does it contain and who signed it?

Once again, to do all that you say requires that you pay taxes before you are allowed to leave. So you are not free to leave.