E1Out

I'll add a few more pieces of advice:

The Regionals are controlled by the Majors, and completely subject to their will. As such, you can never be completely sure that your base will not close one day. However, it's a fairly safe bet (but not a guarantee) that if you go to a Regional that is flying for a Major out of one of it's main hubs, you can be pretty sure your base won't close. (i.e. ExpressJet in IAH or EWR. Comair in ATL or JFK. Mesaba/Pinnacle in MSP or DTW. Eagle in DFW.)

I bring this up, because you have mentioned your young children several times, and my hunch is, you will love this job for awhile - but it will break your heart missing out on much of their lives, and that will become a huge sticking point for you - and ultimately, possibly a major regret.

My strong advice: DO NOT COMMUTE. Choosing a Regional to work for is like playing Roullette. You're going to be taking a huge chance, and hope that it turns out well - the Regionals are much more volatile than the Majors because they are controlled by the Majors and cannot determine their own destiny. However, one aspect that you - in particular - I think ought to consider strongly, is where their largest Major has it's main hubs, and move there once you get hired.

I'll give you a few examples: When you first get hired, you will more than likely be on reserve. Depending on what's going on with the company at the time, if you LIVE IN BASE, you may be gone for 5 days at a time - OR you may be sitting at home for weeks at a time if they are overstaffed. If you're a commuter - you will ALWAYS be gone 5 days at a time.

When you gain seniority and you can hold a schedule of your choice, if you LIVE IN BASE, you can bid for day trips, and be home every night. If you are a commuter, you will ALWAYS be gone a bare minimum of 3 nights and 4 days a week - no matter how senior you get.

When you upgrade to Captain, reread the last two paragraphs, because that will happen all over again. When you go to a major, reread those same paragraphs again.

I guess my other piece of advice would be: Take into consideration that unless you had a management job that had you traveling away from home for more than half of each year - your wife is used to you being home at night, on the weekends, on every holiday and at every family function. She's not used to being alone and dealing with the garage door breaking, the fridge blowing up, the lawn not being mowed, putting the kids to bed by herself, and going to sleep by herself for a minimum of 3 nights a week. She is probably also not used to you being gone for 2 solid months at a time for training every time you change companies, change airplanes, or change seats as you progress in your career.

I'm not short-changing your wife, but I know many a strong, independant, Pilot's Wife that has her share of heartbreak in all of this. This WILL take a toll on her, and you need to prepare her for what you're embarking on - and prepare yourself for her struggling with it.

We can all sit here and b*tch about the crappy things we deal with on a regular basis (truly, just like any other job)... But in my experience (2 Flight Schools, 2 Regionals, 1 Major, 1 Furlough and 4 moves around the country later...), the largest sticking point, heartbreak, casualty, and struggle of every Airline Pilot Family out there - is the time away from home and the toll it takes on you, your wife and your kids.

It's an awesome career, but there are some serious downsides. Best wishes.

proskuneho

E1Out -

Thanks for an awesome post. The time away from home is what I am struggling with, I know it is coming. In fact, that is why I decided not to go the airline route over ten years ago. Now, I am realizing that I cannot ignore the flying bug. Furthermore, I am burned out on management right now. I need to fly, at least for a while. Maybe after I have tasted the life for a while, I will be satisfied and go back to management? Who knows.

Thanks again.

clipperstall

This is one of the best threads I have read in a long time. I would like to revive it considering the fact that I am considering leaving my good career to go fly for a regional.

I would like more input from first officers who have to commute to reserve AND have kids/wife/significant other at home.

Does the fact that you enjoy the job trump the enjoyment you gain from being at home with your family?

clearprop

E1OUT,

Fantastic post. I am the spouse of a FO and your points about the strength it takes to keep a marriage/relationship together while your wife/husband/girlfriend/boyfriend is away from home 3 nights can not be emphasized enough. Mine can now hold weekends off so that has helped. Also, our son is 14 so there are no little ones at home. Luckily, I enjoy aviation as a hobby so we always have a lot to share within the relationship when it comes to flying. Anyone who is considering a career as a professional pilot should read and re-read your post! If you are in a marriage you need to work twice as hard to hold it together. Our's is working because my wife and I WORK AT IT everyday. You need to protect yourself from AIDS. Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome.

"""Does the fact that you enjoy the job trump the enjoyment you gain from being at home with your family?""" I suppose that can vary from month to month for some depending on what is going on at home. In our case the enjoyment of the job rarely trumps the home/family.... Or so I'm told!

PBSG

Not sure whats been written in the past 9 pages, but to add another opinion: It's just not worth it.

To me it boils down to why, truly WHY do you want to leave a good career, as you say, to become an airline pilot.

I've always thought that more people enjoy the fact of being known as the "Airline Pilot" amongst their circle of family and friends than actually doing the job.

Enough has been said of the low pay, reassignments, no support from the company, horrible schedule, divorces, no respect.....yet people still line up to do this job.

I used to work in the training department with my airline. I saw guys literally their first day on the job. They looked happy, smiling, raring to go. They paid attention, tried to do the best job they could and once they were done they ran to the line to do IOE. Fresh uniform, shiny new bag, the whole nine yards.

Then I'd get them back a year later in recurrent, and boy what a year its been! The smiles were gone, the attitudes were a complete 180, they all had stories of scheduling/chief pilot/gate agent/flight attendant/etc. and how bad it is to work here.

These FOs, whether they were a 'career changer' or not, had the love of their job sucked from them. Too many people show up with a "Love of flying" and left after a few years to work elsewhere. I'm not saying don't come over, but make sure you really heed the advice of folks on here rather than watch "Catch Me If You Can" and think your life is gonna be grand.

Jayhawk 023

Good question--easy answer: NO

My background--senior regional FO that commutes to a line, not reserve. However, I still work 4-5 days a week. I am gone those days, period. I typically am out on the 6-7am flight day one and home on the 11pm flight day 4. Wife and child are asleep both when I leave and get home. To answer your next question...commuting was the only option, not a choice. We could not live in base (expensive city) and survive on what my company pays its FO's.

Keep something in mind...this is a lonely career. I fly with some GREAT folks, but as is the case in airline flying, I may not work with them (or even see them again) for a year, if ever! Each week is like groundhog day, you introduce yourself, tell your brief 'story' and you fly. Easy enough, but after awhile you come to realize that you are alone most of the time. Sure, you possibly may eat dinner out with the other pilot and/or FA's once or twice on the trip, but much of your down time is spent alone. I'll say it again, I fly with some really GREAT people at my airline--but for most of them that I consider friends, our friendship is limited to seeing each other in the jetway when swapping airframes or in the crew lounge. I can count, on one hand, the other pilots that I keep in touch with outside of work.

Referencing what I said above, you will find that your own life slowly goes away. Friends, groups, things you belong to or participate in...they all seem to fade. You will find that you never really work a completely reliable schedule, unless you are really senior--but then there's that small matter of money, so you figure out that you HAVE to upgrade to captain just so you can support your family like a responsible person, now there goes your seniority. Family events, church on Sunday, kids' events...all these things your non-aviation friends do each week will become rare for you. The simple fact is that you are gone away from home, a lot. Because of that, you miss out on a lot. So to answer your question in different way, no--being gone all the time, even when its for a flying job, does not trump the fact that you are away from your family.

clearprop

some of what you wrote here really hits home.

proskuneho

Well, here we are several years after I first posted the question. I have been at the regionals for 2 years. I have the same likes and dislikes mentioned by everyone over the last 9 pages. What Jayhawk says here really sums up my biggest challenge. I can deal with scheduling and miserable captains, but I really hate spending so much time away from my family. I am still uncertain of how to proceed. Before I finally started at the regional, my wife said "We can celebrate Thanksgiving/Christmas/Anniversary/Birthdays any day." It just isn't the same. And it just broke my heart one day when my 2-year-old daughter looked at me with sad eyes and said, "Don't leave me daddy." I'm seriously thinking of going back to the office and maybe just doing some ferry flights on the side to satisfy the bug.

Pac12

Probably the most useful thread I’ve found in a month and a half of searching. I was 22 in 2012, and the spirit of this thread (doom and gloom) was strong. I finished my degree and moved on. I just turned 28 and it seems like a historically good time to start (2012 would have been better but that was hard to foresee). Anyone want to re-evaluate their posts from years ago? Or is it like the one post said a few pages back, “After 20 years, it’s the same BS; great job, bad industry”?

I could do ten lean years (I’ll be 38). Including 2 years to get trained and hired, am I just another poor fool who hopes he might be able to be at a Major before I’m 40? My main reserve is, that while things look so rosy right now, I view this through the lens of 2012 (a career with a terrible future). But I just can’t shake flying, I love it, always have, I’m young and single and the days away from home in different US cities sounds amazing to me, international would be even better. You guys lived through it. Please, impart some wisdom! What do you think about the current state and future for a low-or-no-hour pilot? Are we at the crest now, or were the last two decades just painful flukes?

Bahamasflyer

I'm somewhat older than you and have just started in the industry flying for an excellent 135 operator. Home every night except for 2-3 overnights per month (if that).

To answer your question, I really think things will get even better, simply by looking at the MASSIVE number of retirements on the horizon that will drastically rise in just a few years and not drop off again until the mid-late 2020's.

Even though I'll be turning 40 in just a few years, I am single with no kids and have absolutely NO DESIRE have my own family. I see little chance of that changing and figure if I don't want a wife and kids now, the heavy odds are i never will.

Just like not going to a four year college right after high school isn't that unusual, just wanting to get married and have kids because "its the thing to do" shouldn't be looked upon any differently.

I mostly say that because I've seen what a pain my friends kids are, not to mention how much less free time they have with kids than I do without them. (I love them however when I can return them at the end of the day to their parents). There is nothing better than coming home from a long day of flying and having a peaceful and quiet house. Furthermore, way too many of my friends (probably close to half) have been in very turbulent marriages that have ended spectacularly badly, so again I'm in no rush for that either.

Because of that, being away from home 13-18 days a month doesn't frighten me too much when I reach 1500 hrs and move onto the regionals. Esp since I live close enough where I can bid reserve.

To answer your other question, I believe that 9/11, age 65, and 2008 recession were the "perfect storm" for creating the worst decade EVER in this business. While there will still be ups and downs, I firmly believe that the down cycles in the industry for the foreseeable future won't be nearly as bad as it was from 2001 to 2012.

Hope this helped without going too far off topic. Best of luck