I don't know what a "military superstar is either, but I was in the military in the mid 90's and I don't know of a single person that got out of either the training command or the fleet who went to a commuter airline. I was looked down upon because I wantd to fly corporate or gov't/law enforcement. Every pilot I know went to a Legacy, SWA, FeEx, or UPS. One of my squadronmates (and I was east coast at the time) ended up getting hired by Alaska and that was something way out of the ordinary.

USMCFLYR

 

Our friend HercDriver130 took a position at American Eagle after separating from the military in the early 1990's if I recall. I am sure that he would have preferred to have gone to nice major if he could have. However I could be wrong.

In my previous post I was referring to Horizon Air in the mid-1990's. Up until lately it was hugely popular with retired military pilots. However over the last few years it seems that Horizon Air made the preference to hire fresh college kids for whatever reason. My guess is that when they do hire again they will have an onslaught of highly experienced industry professionals to choose from.

SkyHigh

 

That is certainly one good example; but you know that I never said no one ever did it - I said that I didn't know a single one - and I don't. HercDriver130 is from a different service and different community than I, nor do I know what kind of experience or qualifications he may have brought to the table. Now I was specifically speaking of the people that I know that got out in the mid 90s; since then I do know one squadronmate who got out in 2002 and went to SkyWest.

USMCFLYR

 

It's called the cost of doing business. Happens all the time in other career fields. Granted, other career fields don't have to shell out the same type of expenses to a new hire. But many also DON'T require the new hire to have the high experience level that most new hire pilots are required to either. You also have to look at it from the angle that when guys get furloughed, they will often take a job because it's just that, a job. The guy needs a paycheck, the opportunity is there, so he takes it. It's better than unemployment, and more importantly will keep him current.


I believe the guy username "Salty Dog" is one. Don't know what specific "community" he is from. But he's talked about grunting it out in the commuters before getting hired at his current job. My previous employer had many guys that were prior military, and guess what? In the 90's when most of them got hired, that airline was PTF, just like A LOT of other regionals were. In the mid 90's the hiring was still pretty slow. Bear in mind, not EVERY guy gets to separate and then gets the call from XYZ legacy right away.

 

Unlike some others that make wide sweeping statements - I try to speak from MY experience. And from MY experience - I haven't seen a lot of people go to the regionals. Even now - in my last 3 years in my current squadron - everyone who has gotten out of the military and decided to pursue a flying job has gotten on with a major carrier; of course the last two are recent furloughed pilots too. I guess this all goes back to the definition of what a "military superstar" is.....and how it relates to the "Hard Times" thread.

USMCFLYR

 

RIGHT, but to clarify, I'll bet your friends went to the legacy because the job was ACTUALLY there to go to. Like has been said, many of the regionals were hiring in the mid 90's, at the legacies it was still a slow trickle.

 

Oh.....absolutely. I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I actually don't know if legacy hiring was at a trickle back then or not. It seems that UNtied was the hot spot then that everyone was trying to get on with and they had that computer graded sim profile that was knocking a lot of people around. Then I'd say that American seemed to be the next most popular and Delta after that. Quite a few were going to FedEx too - but the cargo carreirs were looked down upon I remember. I've mentioned it before about the AIR INC magazine cover and article that compared the two and without being blatant about it - suggested that if a pilot had offers from both United and FedEx - that they would be better off with a career at the pax carrier rahter than the cargo carrier.

USMCFLYR

 

When I hired on at Horizon Air in the late 1990's I was the lowest time guy in my class with 4000 hours. Skywest and others had a similar line up of new hires. A few were getting on at some of the lessor companies with 1500 hours but it wasn't all that common. The industry was still soaking up pilots who were laid off years prior. Nearly a third of my class was made up of high time pilots who had been laid off from other carriers.

I expect that for a long while that is what the hiring situation will be like at the regionals unless human resources departments decide to avoid hiring experienced pilots. Plenty of newly separated military pilots had to take positions at the regionals to wait for the majors to start hiring again.

SkyHigh

 

Heyas Sky,

My new hire class at Henson was very similar. At 3000 hours with 1400 turbine, I was the low time guy in the class. 4 year upgrades. Lot's of military guys / lifers there, too, because of the relatively good base structure (TPA, ORF, JAX were very mil heavy).

The regionals hiring kids at extremely low time was an anomaly, the same way as the majors hiring the same way back in the 60s...it was a once-in-a-40-year-cycle thing.

GA is a shadow of itself from the 60s, and the fleet count and number of pilots is way down. Changes in taxes and insurance, as well and the way FBOs have distanced themselves from flight training/rentals has decimated aircraft availability, and thus opportunities for time building. Cost of flying is up way out of proportion to inflation or CoL. Why should Joe Public learn to fly when there is MS Flight Sim?

Air21 has proven the naysayers right, and even bellweather companies are under pressure. The destruction of manufacturing demand has decimated light cargo, and even the heavy haulers like UPS and FedEx are worried that people have figured out that ship by ground works almost as good and costs a lot less.

The piston twin fleet, bulked up by the building binge in the 60s and 70s, has been rode hard and put away wet. When the cargo runners pull back, it's likely that you will see those aircraft removed from service and not replaced, because there ARE no replacements. Some may find their way into private ownership, but my bet is that many will wind up being parted out.

Despite this, GOOD CFIs were slight demand, because the hiring brief boomlet "ate its young", and produced relatively small numbers of CFIs. But the collapse of the economy has squelched even that small opportunity.

2-3 years down the road, the civilian route will be VERY difficult, probably more so than at any other time in history. The GA pilot and aircraft count will continue to decline, with decreasing opportunty at every turn as "timebuilding" aircraft are retired.

The majors, and even the large cargo outfits are/will be in re-trenchment, and probably won't hire for years. The regionals will be filled with an increasing number of frustrated pilots unwilling to give up QoL to risk furlough at a major, and any hiring/career progression will slow to a crawl.

In a way, the civilian career will resemble that of the 50s/70s. You got your CFI because you enjoyed it, not to time build. If you want to fly for a major/international carrier, you will need to be military. Civilian guys/gals who are committed to flying for an airline will wind up at the regionals as a career after 10 years of instructing, and their career progression will mimic those at the "local service" carriers of the 60s (the North Centrals, Air Wests, Alleghenys etc)...IE very slow.

I hate to be a downer, but it's been a perfect storm.

Nu

 

NuGuy,

I bet that people will refer to the last few years as truly a golden age in airline hiring. 20 years from now people will be telling stories about the time when pilots could get hired at the regionals with only a few hundred hours.

It seems to me that people are overlooking the fact that the majors really did not hire many during the "boom" of the last few years. For the most part it seemed like the majors were constricting, merging and in overall general retreat. Most of the growth was in the low cost carriers or regionals.

Everyone was too focused on getting to the regionals to recognize that their chances of converting to a major was getting worse. The 65 rule did not help and will continue to reduce the odds of getting to a major. At age 60 most pilots could expect an average of 20 to 25 years at a major. Now they have 25 to 30 years. The results are a significant overall reduction in the number of line pilots needed over a career.

I wonder where pilots in the future will come from. Perhaps regionals will be forced to hire low time pilots since they do not have the traditional stepping stones or maybe they will hire mostly ex-military pilots.

SkyHigh