CommutR4Life

Really?!? (barf..)

Grumble

Any internet ninja's out there that can find Captain Cook on facebook or myspace? All that working three days a week though, he may not have the time for such antics.

Seatownflyer

Hah! That looks like a troll to me. Scary if not though.

indapit

Here is the link. Look it up yourself. Regulations.gov

gtech88

"Instead of feeling like a human flying if feel like i am a machine who does not make mistakes."

Does E-R not offer a Human Factors program?

Seatownflyer

I'm not saying a troll on APC, but a troll on regulations.gov. Don't believe everything you read on the internets no matter how legit it seems...

rampcheck

No matter what hours are ultimately decided, as a member of the traveling public, I would like to see all future pilots carrying passengers for the airlines to have a four year degree in a targeted disciple such as the one offered at Embry Riddle. I'm sure most passengers would be appalled to learn the pilots up front have never received a degree in Aviation. When the public hires a Professional Engineer, they know he has a degree in Engineering, a Lawyer, a Law degree, a Doctor, a Medical degree.

It is laughable to read the thread originator and see later in the thread his acknowledgment he has just passed the 1500 hour threshold. Furthermore, he got a job with the airlines with 850 hours, lost it, and has been instructing for the last 4 years, the first few of which were some of the greatest hiring frenzies in Air Carrier History. It smells like the old "I know I'm incompetent, but I've got mine, and I'll do whatever to see you don't get yours"!

All disciplines have found that a degree and experience trumps only experience every time. Aviation can be no different. The answers provided by whomever at Embry Riddle, if you'll take the time to read all of them, at least site a study of some sort, and offer other actions that will better provide safety on the flight deck. I see no fault in Embry Riddle providing these answers for others to peruse and use if they see fit. If they were trying to feather their own hat, they too would be asking for the degree requirement. I also see no fault in the University stating their study concludes that the additional hour requirement for SIC does not provide the safety that the FAA is seeking, and goes on to offer suggestions that their study concludes does provide additional safety.

For the record, I don't have a degree from Embry Riddle. I am just an old F33A pilot, and not looking to fly for anyone but myself. If an individual with a degree in aviation needs 1500 hours to sit in the right seat, then an individual without degree should need considerable more hours. Engineering requires 2 years apprenticeship with degree, 10 years without. Legal requires grad school or 10 years apprenticeship without, and medical, thank goodness, just says no! Maybe the FAA should follow suit.

dashtrash300

If people want to send an email to ERAU, the person to contact is Joni Hunt who is the Director of Government Relations

Staff Contacts

Splanky

The degree does not apply to actually working as a pilot. I have one of those degrees and have rarely used the knowledge gained from it. Some of the knowledge is really neat stuff to know, and they were fun classes. However, I rarely if ever use the information while flying. Instead, I find I use the information gained from flight instruction as a student and more important the knowledge I have gained from working as a pilot.

Unfortunately, the highly structured approach at ERAU that our wonderful Mr. Cook refers to is more like hand-holding. Where students gain no experience actually making decisions. And where students are kept from flying in conditions where they can learn real-world flying. My first employer took a chance with me. Their experience was that prior ERAU alumni they hired were afraid to fly in clouds; being in Washington State that fear makes a pilot all but worthless to an FBO.

Operations at the Riddle flight line are completely insulated from cost. As ERAU can charge huge amounts for rentals they obsess about maintenance issues where most operators do not have that luxury. My first two employers did take care of their airplanes. However, it was a steep learning curve for me on how to keep an operation actually moving. I had many other steep learning curves in my first pilot job as Riddle ignores all other aspects of aviation besides the airlines.

ERAU does provide quality education. However, for pilots their brand of education is not necessary and in fact can be a detriment. Pilots are far better served to get a degree in a back up field with such a fickle career. Short story long, Riddle's training does not make a better pilot. My direct experience can attest to this as well as most other professional pilots that have had cause to compare.

bcrosier

I'll pretty much echo Splanky's sentiments. I am NOT an ERAU grad (I have earned a BS in aviation from a well known state school. I should have at least obtained a more broadly applicable minor retrospect - but that's another thread), but the general sentiment I get from many is ERAU's flight program in particular is regarded along the same lines as an Earl Schieb paint job (except ERAU's price is completely out of line). Nothing special, in some aspects inferior to other programs, but widely marketed.

If you (and they) want to pick something to be appalled at, there is a whole laundry list of things to go with. Appalling pay, working conditions/hours, inability to transfer 20+ years of part 121 experience to a new carrier (in terms of pay), etc, so on and so forth.

The biggest problem is that most of the time, incompetently operated aircraft don't crash (Don't believe me? Go sit out at your local GA airport for an afternoon one nice weekend and report back with the results). As a result, "most passengers" don't give two seconds thought as to who they are buying a ticket on. They should care if their flight is being operated by pilots who have obtained some real world experience, if the company is everyone's "last choice" of places to get hired, if they are flying that route only because they were the lowest bidder to the mainline. Unfortunately, we have a nation of extremely ignorant consumers, who largely rely on the fact that the roulette wheel doesn't land on green very often.

Don't get me wrong - I'm all for raising the bar to become an airline pilot. Honestly, I'd like to see something closer to the medical or law model - an undergraduate degree in any subject, then an additional period of aviation focused study (I don't think it would need to be more than six months to a year), followed by an "intenship" of real world flying where you have to gain a certain amount of experience in various areas. We are at least inching toward the last part of that with the 1500 hour requirement. More appropriate is the model of not that many years back when it took at least 2000 (often a lot more, plus a hundreds of hours of multi-engine time) hours of experience before the regionals would even consider you.

The real problem with ERAU is they're being rather disingenuous: They're claiming there is no safety benefit to requiring more experience before a pilot can work for a Part 121 carrier - which I (and many others) believe is complete and utter BS. Coincidentally, they happen to sell a miracle cure which allegedly addresses the very problem, and if only the government will endorse their patent medicine all will be well. Again, I think there is some value to what is taught at ERAU and other well respected aviation training programs. The problem being there IS NO SUBSTITUTE for real world experience, and you cannot get that in a classroom or in a training environment.