F-16 stall speed?

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05-18-2010 | 03:15 PM

#11

Grumble

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Quote:

Originally Posted by USMCFLYR

Sounds like a problem from many different angles!

The airflow around two different aircraft can certainly be a problem - especially when talking about aircraft of vastly different capabilities.
There was a Class A mishap with two fatalities when a T-34C tried to take a look at an F-14's gear after the TomCat reported a gear problem when he lowerd his gear at NAS Corpus Christi back in '91.
The T-34 IP was a former F-14 guy I heard and he had a Marine SNA with him. He offered up a visual inspection. The T-34 just got to close and WHAM! - sucked right up into the F-14 (at least that is what the SIR came up with)

Well....I can't imagine, unless for some REALLY close observation, that there would be any reason to be getting very close to the other aircraft

USMCFLYR

F-104 was pulled over on it's back and into the XB-70 that crashed by the wingtip vorticies. That was the theory anyway.

By the way, for all those asking, intercepting an ultralight is not that hard. It can be done from any altitude. He may not have even known he was being followed. You think it's that hard to orbit above him and watch him on the FLIR? Or with mk1 mod0 eyeballs?

05-18-2010 | 04:51 PM

#12

Slice

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From: Spartan

Quote:

Originally Posted by alarkyokie

Like,uh, accidental A/B wake turbulence?

What are you trying to get at? If it's the F-4 mentioned above, that's a bit before my time in fighters...As a guy who has CAP'd DC and sat alert in defense of the NCR, I'd say don't go where you shouldn't and you probably won't have to worry.

05-18-2010 | 07:20 PM

#13

Airhoss

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From: Sleeping in the black swan’s nest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by USMCFLYR

Well....I can't imagine, unless for some REALLY close observation, that there would be any reason to be getting very close to the other aircraft

USMCFLYR

It was in the clouds they overshot and got way to close was how I remembered it.

But it was long time ago...

05-18-2010 | 07:30 PM

#14

jungle

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From: Burning the Agitprop of the Apparat

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airhoss

It was in the clouds they overshot and got way to close was how I remembered it.

But it was long time ago...

Actually they kissed.

http://www.airdisaster.com/reports/ntsb/AAR84-07.pdf

Fighters can easily track slower aircraft with a weave, hi yoyo or orbit. They can also damage light aircraft with their wake. A fighter produces a large wake in proportion to it's size due to high wing loading. Add a high G loading and a fighter can produce a wake equal in power to an airliner. This has proven harmful to light aircraft in many instances.

05-18-2010 | 07:34 PM

#15

Airhoss

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From: Sleeping in the black swan’s nest.

Nvermind my facts are wrong. It was a Baron not a Bonanza it was during daylight hours and it was actually a midair between the intercepting F-4 and the Baron not a wake turbulence incident.

But I guess they were close enough to ID him......

Here is the NTSB report.

http://www.airdisaster.com/reports/ntsb/AAR84-07.pdf

Jungle you posted as I was posting you fast fingered devil you!!!!!

Last edited by Airhoss; 05-18-2010 at 08:12 PM.

05-18-2010 | 07:45 PM

#16

jungle

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From: Burning the Agitprop of the Apparat

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airhoss

Nvermind my facts are wrong. It was a Baron not a Bonanza it was during daylight hours and it actually a midair between the intercepting F-4 and the Baron not a wake turbulence incident.

But I guess they close enough to ID him......

Here is the NTSB report.

http://www.airdisaster.com/reports/ntsb/AAR84-07.pdf

Jungle you posted as I was posting you fast fingered devil you!!!!!

You were only four minutes late. I just happened to have a prior interest in this incident.

05-18-2010 | 08:44 PM

#17

tomgoodman

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From: 767A (Ret)

Turtle speed

Quote:

Originally Posted by jungle

Fighters can easily track slower aircraft with a weave, hi yoyo or orbit.

I had an opportunity to observe this from the back seat of an F-4 chase plane during an F-16 "high AOA" test mission. No way we could have matched his (lack of) airspeed.

05-18-2010 | 08:54 PM

#18

jungle

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From: Burning the Agitprop of the Apparat

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomgoodman

I had an opportunity to observe this from the back seat of an F-4 chase plane during an F-16 "high AOA" test mission. No way we could have matched his (lack of) airspeed.

You can't match the speed. You can move around it, with any number of tactics. The hawk kills doves with a four to one speed advantage.

Thrust to weight and max AOA play a large part in fighter to fighter contests.
There is never even a contest when you match a fighter against a light aircraft.

Getting slow in any aircraft is not conducive to long life. Speed is life.

A knife fight in a telephone booth tends to hurt all of the players.

Get slow in a furball and you just become a cherry to be picked.

Last edited by jungle; 05-18-2010 at 09:15 PM.