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Old 12-12-2017, 07:13 PM
  #10011  
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Originally Posted by RI830 View Post
Slow flight down the ILS at 20-30kts with that prop crankin......he probably cleared the fog in front of himself enough to see some lights.
At 30kts, he’s dang near hovering
Exactly, keep in mind we have such ridiculous amounts of runway relative to what is needed, and if you ever see it, can just touch down and land and follow the yellow line + GPS assist to taxi. Can't see, missed approach and divert. Relatively low risk.
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Old 12-12-2017, 07:56 PM
  #10012  
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Originally Posted by cardiomd View Post
Exactly, keep in mind we have such ridiculous amounts of runway relative to what is needed, and if you ever see it, can just touch down and land and follow the yellow line + GPS assist to taxi. Can't see, missed approach and divert. Relatively low risk.
Single engine piston in that weather is very high risk imo. If it quits you’re probably dead.
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Old 12-12-2017, 08:13 PM
  #10013  
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Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot View Post
Single engine piston in that weather is very high risk imo. If it quits you’re probably dead.
It's risky but legal. Everything we do in this industry comes with a risk. You can always take a look under those regs, and it's amazing how often you can actually see something.

I remember multiple times being able to go take a look under 91 while airliners held and getting in easily.

Not saying it's good judgement, but it certainly was legal.
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Old 12-13-2017, 05:00 AM
  #10014  
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp View Post
It's risky but legal. Everything we do in this industry comes with a risk.
True. Met this guy a year or two before it happened. Seemed like a nice fella.
ASN Aircraft accident Boeing 727-235 N4743 Tampa International Airport, FL (TPA)
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Old 12-13-2017, 07:17 AM
  #10015  
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Originally Posted by cardiomd View Post
Exactly, keep in mind we have such ridiculous amounts of runway relative to what is needed, and if you ever see it, can just touch down and land and follow the yellow line + GPS assist to taxi. Can't see, missed approach and divert. Relatively low risk.
From my past Saratoga experience, at medium to light landing weights, I used less runway landing in a 757 than more than a few of the SEL guys. Once it's dialed in with trim and power on the ILS, easier to fly an ILS compared to light aircraft. More stable and less time to screw up due to higher VREF approach speed.

This instance? Wasn't there, don't know what he saw. Some airliner may have blown the threshold area above mins.
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Old 12-13-2017, 09:33 AM
  #10016  
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Originally Posted by METO Guido View Post
True. Met this guy a year or two before it happened. Seemed like a nice fella.
ASN Aircraft accident Boeing 727-235 N4743 Tampa International Airport, FL (TPA)
As I remember, PanAm had their strobes on.
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Old 12-13-2017, 11:32 AM
  #10017  
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Originally Posted by badflaps View Post
As I remember, PanAm had their strobes on.

Well, there you go, runway environment...
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Old 12-13-2017, 05:26 PM
  #10018  
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Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot View Post
Single engine piston in that weather is very high risk imo. If it quits you’re probably dead.
Depends on your definition of "high risk." I would not argue with you, but I do it all the time. I would not do it in an airplane I didn't know like the back of my hand.

Originally Posted by Dolphinflyer View Post
From my past Saratoga experience, at medium to light landing weights, I used less runway landing in a 757 than more than a few of the SEL guys. Once it's dialed in with trim and power on the ILS, easier to fly an ILS compared to light aircraft. More stable and less time to screw up due to higher VREF approach speed.

This instance? Wasn't there, don't know what he saw. Some airliner may have blown the threshold area above mins.
There are some people that carry extra speed perhaps, but the book landing for Saratoga from 50' is 1650 ft, ground roll well less than 1000 ft. In a modest headwind I routinely make a 1000 ft turnoff without much braking. I can't imagine it compares at all to a 757 when flown properly.

But yeah I've seen some SEL come in and float halfway down before settling in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMmHYWjEmkY
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Old 12-13-2017, 07:31 PM
  #10019  
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Originally Posted by cardiomd View Post
Depends on your definition of "high risk." I would not argue with you, but I do it all the time. I would not do it in an airplane I didn't know like the back of my hand.



There are some people that carry extra speed perhaps, but the book landing for Saratoga from 50' is 1650 ft, ground roll well less than 1000 ft. In a modest headwind I routinely make a 1000 ft turnoff without much braking. I can't imagine it compares at all to a 757 when flown properly.

But yeah I've seen some SEL come in and float halfway down before settling in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMmHYWjEmkY
You speak the truth... the 757 doesn't hold a prayer to the Saratoga's short field performance if flown on speed.

And like you said... carrying extra speed, sometimes significant extra speed to try to fit into a jet environment, and it will flow for a mile...
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Old 12-14-2017, 12:36 AM
  #10020  
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Originally Posted by METO Guido View Post
True. Met this guy a year or two before it happened. Seemed like a nice fella.
ASN Aircraft accident Boeing 727-235 N4743 Tampa International Airport, FL (TPA)
I am sorry, but what part of that was risky? That was suicide or complete 'I am God...' captain douche-baggery.
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