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Tool of the day

Old 12-18-2017, 08:51 AM
  #10051  
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Originally Posted by labbats
Grammar not grammer
Hook, line and sinker...
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Old 12-18-2017, 08:51 AM
  #10052  
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Originally Posted by NeverHome
2. Typing on an Ipad, it can be cumbersome to track down all the punctuation errors, misspelling, incorrect wording, etc.
Yes, I get it. Spelling is hard You want to get your message across with a minimum of distractions, then work a little harder at it. Kind of tough to blame an iPad or typing difficulties when you're consistently typing an extra "o" on purpose.

But, whatever... moving on.
Originally Posted by NeverHome
Stated this way, I wish to put an idea forward, you wish to divert the conversation from the topic at hand. What does that say about you?
So, you're talking about the "idea" a few posts ago where you sound like the Tony Robbins of aviation with the power of a positive attitude? Okay, let's talk about that idea.

Originally Posted by NeverHome
Consider this: if you loose your one and only engine, there is only so far you can glide, and only so many "decent" landing spots. You are typically not left with much choice (but some). Unfortunately if you loose your engine in IMC (day or night) you will likely not be able to see your best option until it is too late. Sooooo....

As the PIC of an aircraft in an emergency, what resources are you utilizing? There is your passengers, ATC, copy of your weather briefing (you did get one didn't you?). There are many resources available to you.

I believe of the FAA's 5 hazardous attitudes, yours would be resigned. Yes it is a bad thing that your engine quits in IMC at night. This in no way means that you have to be in a "world of hurt". If you following procedures, utilizing resources, relying on your training, and utilizing your brain- then there is no reason you should be in a world of hurt.
The whole reason we're on this tangent is some guy in a Saratoga decided to fly an approach with the wx at 500 RVR. That's what everyone's discussing with respect to single engine IFR.

You get on here with the "do that pilot #%!" speech along with "If I think happy thoughts and don't give up all will be ok because I'm the PIC with the final say on my flight"

You post contradicts itself. On the one hand, you acknowledge losing an engine in IMC is a pretty big problem: "Unfortunately if you loose your engine in IMC (day or night) you will likely not be able to see your best option until it is too late." (yikes! sound like "a world of hurt")
But then there's this:
"If you following procedures, utilizing resources, relying on your training, and utilizing your brain- then there is no reason you should be in a world of hurt."

No reason? Other than that stuff you said earlier about glide distance, only so many landing spots, not much choice and not being able to see your best option until it's too late. So, which is it?

It also sounds like you're picturing losing your engine at cruise in IMC, setting up a proper glide, getting help from your passenger (who may also be a pilot), using ATC to help while you peruse your weather brief for the best options and save the day. Sure... it could happen.

Everyone else is talking about being on a 2 mile final to the 500 RVR airport or worse, maybe on the missed approach and the spinner stops spinning. Your passenger is looking out at the same clouds you are, what is he going to do for you? I guess he could help tighten your seat belt for the impact and punch you in the face out of principle for being there in the first place. ATC is the tower at that point. Other than confirming the vis is indeed 500 RVR, telling you the tower is physically in the tops as well and they can't see sh!t and asking nicely if you'd check 10 left or right and not wreck their approach lights, what are they going to do? Reaching over and picking up your weather brief for some quick reading at that point is probably going to earn you another punch from your passenger because even he knows that's not going to help at that point.
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Old 12-18-2017, 12:58 PM
  #10053  
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Originally Posted by Adlerdriver
Yes, I get it. Spelling is hard You want to get your message across with a minimum of distractions, then work a little harder at it. Kind of tough to blame an iPad or typing difficulties when you're consistently typing an extra "o" on purpose.

But, whatever... moving on.
So, you're talking about the "idea" a few posts ago where you sound like the Tony Robbins of aviation with the power of a positive attitude? Okay, let's talk about that idea.


The whole reason we're on this tangent is some guy in a Saratoga decided to fly an approach with the wx at 500 RVR. That's what everyone's discussing with respect to single engine IFR.

You get on here with the "do that pilot #%!" speech along with "If I think happy thoughts and don't give up all will be ok because I'm the PIC with the final say on my flight"

You post contradicts itself. On the one hand, you acknowledge losing an engine in IMC is a pretty big problem: "Unfortunately if you loose your engine in IMC (day or night) you will likely not be able to see your best option until it is too late." (yikes! sound like "a world of hurt")
But then there's this:
"If you following procedures, utilizing resources, relying on your training, and utilizing your brain- then there is no reason you should be in a world of hurt."

No reason? Other than that stuff you said earlier about glide distance, only so many landing spots, not much choice and not being able to see your best option until it's too late. So, which is it?

It also sounds like you're picturing losing your engine at cruise in IMC, setting up a proper glide, getting help from your passenger (who may also be a pilot), using ATC to help while you peruse your weather brief for the best options and save the day. Sure... it could happen.

Everyone else is talking about being on a 2 mile final to the 500 RVR airport or worse, maybe on the missed approach and the spinner stops spinning. Your passenger is looking out at the same clouds you are, what is he going to do for you? I guess he could help tighten your seat belt for the impact and punch you in the face out of principle for being there in the first place. ATC is the tower at that point. Other than confirming the vis is indeed 500 RVR, telling you the tower is physically in the tops as well and they can't see sh!t and asking nicely if you'd check 10 left or right and not wreck their approach lights, what are they going to do? Reaching over and picking up your weather brief for some quick reading at that point is probably going to earn you another punch from your passenger because even he knows that's not going to help at that point.
I can see that I have struck a chord with you

So I guess I will respond to your post bit by bit.

1. You are correct that I would like to get my point across with a minimal amount of distractions. No argument there. However in a cost vs. reward approach, I have absolutely no reason to try harder. I'm not on here to impress anybody with spelling (or really anything else for that matter). I just don't see a ROI for trying harder to spell correctly on an internet forum.

2. Honestly your Tony Robbins comment was funny. I can see how it would sound that way. So yes I will ride with it.

3. Now to the meat and potatoes of this whole thing. Do you not agree with the fact that the PIC is the final authority, and ultimately responsible for the outcome of the flight? I never said all would be OKAY, rather that you as the PIC have options and do not have to be in a world of pain. Is it entirely possible that things will end with fatalities. Certainly, but that is absolutely no reason not to work towards a safe successful outcome.

Lets talk about those resources I mentioned previously. ATC is a huge help in an emergency. In cruise they can point you in the direction of an airfield, a field, somewhere that may have post accident resources. That sort of thing. Oh yes and in a pinch they may be able to give you localizer frequencies and courses. Your passenger can hold and read a checklist, not rocket science. Even a non pilot passenger can assist in this area.

Now the weather/ pilot briefing. Will you be pulling this out when your engine quits? Nope, you should have received and familiarized yourself with this document before you ever took off. Prior planning prevents **** poor performance. It sounds as though you may be advocating waiting until something catastrophic happens to do what should have been done a long time ago. Surely you don't mean that.

Lets talk about the 500RVR 2 mile final and the engine quits. What can ATC do for you? Send those trucks rolling! Yes turn you so you don't hit the approach lights (that may hurt, we want to avoid pain, remember?). That passenger can open a door (egress after the crash). Oh and lets not forget those procedures. Time willing, you may be able to either A) get the engine restarted, or B) secure the systems to prevent a fire. Both have value.

I must say, I am actually quite surprised that there is such a resigned attitude here. Is it possible that you may not survive such an unfortunate incident? Yes. Given that possibility, you owe it to yourself and your passengers to do EVERYTHING possible to avoid that possibility. That starts long before you ever take off. Moral of the story, just because you cannot see your landing spot until the last second does not mean that you are dead. Rather given that possibility, doing everything I have discussed here, before you get to that point, will improve your odds.

Now I'm going to own my Tony Robbins title: Only YOU can increase your odds of survival in the worst of situations. You do this by proficiency, planning, resource utilization, and by NOT GIVING UP!

Oh yes I almost forgot, Adlerdriver you did not answer my question about what kind of person that makes you. Don't worry you do not have to answer. Keep this in mind though, my Tony Robbins approach may have real value (or none at all). We wont get to discovery the truth if all we ever do is nitpick grammer and spelin.
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Old 12-19-2017, 09:00 AM
  #10054  
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Well, that escalated quickly.

Anybody want to talk about the flat earth for a while instead? I mean, it's really more of a dome, but the "dome earth" just isn't as catchy.

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Old 12-19-2017, 12:08 PM
  #10055  
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When I post opinions which contain grammar and spelling errors, I amuse but do not persuade. The message becomes a victim of the presentation, like a sermon delivered while wearing a clown suit.
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Old 12-19-2017, 01:27 PM
  #10056  
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Originally Posted by T28driver
Well, that escalated quickly.

Anybody want to talk about the flat earth for a while instead? I mean, it's really more of a dome, but the "dome earth" just isn't as catchy.

Where do the reptile masters of the inner earth live?
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Old 12-19-2017, 01:31 PM
  #10057  
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Originally Posted by cardiomd
It is a Saratoga... really slow, and 500 RVR probably was some good vertical visibility (likely 500 ft or greater) to see lights, which is not that bad. If he did it, good for him. I don't think that is necessarily fate-tempting for a light GA aircraft.

What do you mean couldn't talk on the radio?
No offense but you obviously have never landed 600 to 300 rvr before.
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Old 12-20-2017, 05:39 PM
  #10058  
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Originally Posted by HIFLYR
No offense but you obviously have never landed 600 to 300 rvr before.
He flies a 182, so I'm guessing you're right.

Cardiomd, do you have a clue what 500 RVR actually looks like? You'd have to be completely out of your mind to try it. I have 6K hours in piston GA and Cat 1 minima are difficult enough, let alone 500 RVR.
. That's below Cat II, and you'd have to be really bored with living to want to try that.
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Old 12-20-2017, 08:40 PM
  #10059  
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Step one when your single engine quits: pick your nearest suitable landing area.

If it’s 500rvr you cannot complete step one at any point before impact. You shouldn’t ever be there. Everything else is moot. If you are there you had very bad luck with unforecast wx or you are the tool of the day.

The Saratoga pilot is the latter I suspect. Anyone justifying him doing what he was doing should join the tool shed
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Old 12-21-2017, 05:08 AM
  #10060  
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Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot
Step one when your single engine quits: pick your nearest suitable landing area.

If it’s 500rvr you cannot complete step one at any point before impact. You shouldn’t ever be there. Everything else is moot. If you are there you had very bad luck with unforecast wx or you are the tool of the day.

The Saratoga pilot is the latter I suspect. Anyone justifying him doing what he was doing should join the tool shed
But with that logic he shouldn't fly imc ever since you can't pick your landing spot if it does fail.
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