One fault with your theory... Hawaiian isn't more expensive! I proved that a few pages back:D

Correct. I’ve been saying the same thing and even contradicted myself there. Thank you for bringing it up. Keep up the great work on your end! Your posts have been 100% spot on.

I’m out. I Have a rare weekend day off. Going to go put my toes in the surf. [emoji481]

Well let’s assume for a second that the unionized Hawaiian construction force is the fearsome force of nature you think it is. Do you really think SWA has gotten this far into the process without a plan for gate space? No, really? I know the play it by the seat of your pants image of Herb’s airline is still nominally pushed, but do you really think they haven’t already explored the possibilities and don’t have solutions waiting to be implemented? That they’ve taken a step this far and haven’t consulted with officials and companies about permitting, the construction process and objective realities of airport expansion a couple of thousand miles off the mainland?

Maybe they won’t be able to get concrete or asphalt. Give me a break.

I was impressed by how fast our new buildings went up in Dallas. Pretty wild.

Like with the construction equipment and workers, it would have to be shipped in from the mainland.

In this case, don’t be surprised if the union workers refused to unload the ships, leaving said equipment and concrete stuck in the harbor. What, is all of that equipment going to be flown out here in Boeing-guppies?

Please, stop before you make a complete fool out of yourself. You have no idea what it’s like out here.

Nextera Energy is a multibillion dollar fortune 200 company that tried to come out here and show the locals how things worked. They were sent packing back to the mainland with their tail stuck between their legs.

They presented a good business model that would’ve brought a lot of good things to the island chain. At the end of the day, it didn’t matter because it would’ve upset the pineapple cart. The residents revolted against it and kept their high power rates and antiquated infrastructure as opposed to overturning the pineapple cart.

Ok. I posited one possibility. And you’re having trouble expanding on the other avenues of approach. I don’t know what they’re going to do. It may be cirque du solei styled tents or Temple of doom like carts and tracks.

The overarching point that keeps zipping past you is that they probability already have plans in place to address the issue and that they’ve already fleshed out the process with the key players. And they have a lot of money to throw at it to make it happen quickly if they so choose.

When I say give me a break with regard to asphalt I’m rolling my eyes at the thought that they’re not already 10 steps beyond that kind of a hiccup.

Gentlemen(or ladies?). Let’s not get our undergarments in a wad. I would be less surprised at WN announcing that the are acquiring HA than if they were going to finance the new Diamond Head terminal. WN hasn’t experienced the success it’s had by making poor business decisions. HA only paid for the corrections to the new maintenance hangar when they were allowed to offset the rent. Even HA wouldn’t front the capital to build the Mauka terminal expansion. Dedicated gates can be had by any airline willing to pay the fee. You would see WN with dedicated gates well before they even thought of getting involved with the State DOT quagmire.

I think you can guarantee Alaska will begin pulling flights, it’s our strategy, shrink to success.

Not necessarily. When faced with an onslaught from Delta starting in '13, AS was forced out of their comfort zone and increased service, hiring and purchased more a/c. HI is a pretty big slice of AS' pie and I doubt they'll just give it up. I guess only time will tell but I think the market is big enough for all companies to make money.

Everyone can tell you this until they are blue in the face, but Hawaii DOES NOT OPERATE like any other state in the US. You (and swa leadership) can not understand until you live there. Period. Hawaii state commerce operates like a 3rd world country - only one where you can’t payoff leaders. It’s quite the paradox.

Hawaiian’s hanger took like 4 years to finish - a HANGER! And If you don’t think Hawaiian’s management doesn’t know which ‘wheels to grease’ you’re wrong.
Google Oahu rail and Hawaii’s Superferry to get a better understanding of Hawaii’s affliction to new intrastate transportation. The place is a nightmare for businesses.

This guy is a fool.

I work at Hawaiian , I love the people at southwest ! Been jumpseating on them many years , I hope we can coexist with them!

FNGFO, you’re a tool, you don’t even go here !

What zipped past you is that: 1) We don’t like this any more than you do, in fact we wish very much that things could be done in Hawaii in the way you imagine. If it did, we’d have good roads, schools and reliable electricity, which we don’t. No one is saying that the difficulty WN could face building infrastructure is a good thing, we’re just describing the objective reality we’ve observed and discussed with generations of family and close friends that are contractors, civil engineers, state functionaries, etc. 2) You’re using the same logic that kills a visitor on average once a week here: “I’m a strong swimmer, the water looks great, what a beautiful day!”

Can we change this title of this thread already. I know of zero pilots that have jumped ship because of sw coming into the market.

https://apple.news/A7xdVlZDyRmizq1EkMa5EfQ

Or

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fool.com/amp/investing/2019/03/10/3-reasons-southwest-airlines-hawaii-service-could.aspx


No guarantees. Stay humble my SWA friends.

Look, the local DOT, contractors etc on tropical islands holding their own populace and those who wish to invest and build on those islands hostage with their sloth and incompetence isn’t something unique to Hawaii just as people drowning in the ocean even though they think they are strong swimmers happens virtually evereywhere there’s a beach.

It’s why I said island time is island time wherever you go. Whether it’s actually building, renting, increasing frequency or whatever doesn’t matter. SWA has already considered the solution to this problem and has a plan in place or they suddenly got stupid as an organization. I don’t put much faith in the latter at this time.

It’s really simple, I think HA will have to pivot to face this threat. Probably partner up with someone. I don’t think “the experience” carries nearly as much weight as some of you hope when it comes to economy seats, that SWA will put price pressure on you once they get this up and running or market themselves in a way to put price pressure on you, and likely already has a good start on the gate space situation.

It’s all half a$$ed conjecture as I have had several times, and the same holds true for your opinions on the islands. I doubt this plays out exactly as anyone envisions, and I’m certainly not rooting for HA to fail. I’d much rather look at those pretty flowers and lady on the tail than that Abe Lincoln looking Eskimo I usually see near your gates, but the wolf is in the hen house. They may stay content to let be. Lord knows they could make a run on us and put a real crimp in our business if they wanted, but largely don’t for now.

The “tool” and “fool” posters can feel free to squat on the nearest pineapple.

I sincerely hope you are right.

OK. I get it. You’re a troll. Fine. You don’t work for SWA, AK, or HAL. You have no skin in this.

I’ll take the pineapple. You keep having fun from your moms basement.

Having “skin in the game” is not a refutation of an opinion, and has no bearing on the rightness or wrongness of one’s arguments.

As for the pineapple comment, I didn’t see you name call, but if I missed it then it applies. I’m having a discussion. Others are calling names. You decide who better fits their mother’s basement.

Good luck.

Indeed...

Way Too Many Tourists Are Dying In Hawaii


"Hawaii’s rate of drownings per visitor (5.7 per 1 million visitors) is 13 times the national average, according to Civil Beat, and 10 times the drowning rate for Hawaii residents. It dwarfs the visitor-drowning rate of other beach states, including Florida, where there are 0.9 drownings per 1 million visitors."


https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b096e9f09197c9


Last time I'm feeding this guy.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

This times a million. We are all pawns in the chess game being played by our well monied overlords. Let’s all hope for continued prosperity for every single one of us. I am quick to correct any of my fellow company pilots I hear talking about crushing the competition or buying out the incumbent airline. It goes something like this:

Other guy starts talking smack.
Me - “Yeah, that would be great if they went into bankruptcy and all their crews and ground employees got put on the street and we just came in and took over, wouldn’t it?”
Other guy - “uh, well no that’s not what I meant.”

^^^^this^^^^

Let's just say an acquisition was considered and was in the works for the past several years. The 787 order was a Kelly move to get the houses in order.

What does this mean?
We dont speak code here. Plain language please.

Kind of a stretch don't ya think?

HA orders 10 787 for long haul international routes, utilizes a fleet of 330's, has a deal in the works with JAL for more Japan routes, is about to receive their 16th NEO. And flies 717 interisland.

SWA has all 737's with no intention of diverging from this according to current mgmnt, considers South of the boarder and Jamaica as their international flying, offers no premium cabin or service.

I know HA is only worth 1.5 billion and could be purchased by any airline for less than Delta paid for Comair in 1999, but come on seriously? The only thing that 787's and SWA have in common is Boeing.

It was a wit as dry as a Churchill martini.

Exactly......current senior management is thoroughly entrenched with the “We’re going to conquer the world (just as soon as we figure out how to accept foreign currency) with the B737”.

They can’t even figure that out. I’m not sure they’d know what to do with an airline that flies four different non-B737 fleet types and does true international flying.

And believe me, it’s not like they’d just take the knowledge and expertise of current Hawaiian Airlines folks. No, for certain they’d try to reinvent the wheel like they do with everything.

its one big crap shoot. I turned down a TWA interview when little ole Southern Airways hired me.

a few years later, TWA was out of business.

I retired off the 400.

go figure and good luck.

That. I’d say that some type of acquisition is all but guaranteed now in the next couple of years. For the above reasons mentioned though, I put good money that it won’t be SWA just because of the fleet type and business model differences. I just hope it’s on good terms while we’re still healthy, not a TWA type deal.

Place your bets. My guesses in order. Not my preference, but my best swag. AA, DAL, ALK, JB, SWA and UAL. UA is last because they have the most overlap from a DOT standpoint.

At this stage, all I hope is that it’s an ALPA carrier so there will at least be a kiss in it for us when it’s over. I’m afraid SWA or AA would try to (will) staple us.

Buckle up, it’s going to be an interesting ride over the next 5-7 years. Might be good, might be bad. All I know is that I’m just along for the ride. Good luck to us all.

Easy guys..dont give up the ship!

SWA came to LGA..BFD. SWA came to DCA..BFD. SWA came to ATL..BFD! Just hang in there..the locals will be loyal..you have a great airline..

Jmho...CG

Are you saying end 202 SWA buys Alaska?

Don't get your hopes up. SWA has looked at the AS books a couple times and decided we were too expensive. Now that we spent $4B for VX AS is REALLY too expensive.

You obviously don’t know the Hawaii market. No loyalty there:D

Just a ****ed off ex-Aloha'er…

I'm sure a majority of your former co-workers aren't complaining. Most are 330 Captains, and a large group are check airmen, instructors and a chief pilot. A huge swath of ex-Aloha'ers were hired in 2008-2010. Putting them in the 25% range on the seniority list. Nope no loyalty there:rolleyes: If I remember correctly wasn't there a group of Aloha pilots basking in the thought that it was Aloha that was going to buy Hawaiian? I'm sure there were a few Aloha pilots blacklisted? Maybe you were one of them?:confused:

Hell Aloha Cargo pilots still have a inside track at the limited # of jobs available. (and rightly so) And most if not all of them weren't around during the original Aloha years.

As long as SWA is still charging $175 for a OGG-HNL tix, I'm not too concerned.

I noticed the SWA thread has been quiet for 2 days now... Hmm wonder if your "long haul" MAX8 has anything to do with it? The CULT is strong over there... "First rule of SWA......we don't talk about SWA when there is negative news"

I agree with everything you say here about the world after 2008, but I think you misinterpreted the post, which I don't think was fuelled by AQoolaide. The lack of loyalty is clear when you hear locals complain about getting "ripped off" on interisland fares, even though they're cheaper than most PDX-SEA, SFO-SMF, LAX-LAS, etc., etc... I just checked BOS-LGA for day after tomorrow and it's $455r/t. Think HA could get away with that for HNL-ITO?

Looks to me like you have much to learn about what you're trying to sound smart about. Sometimes, it's better to read, study some history and have a modicum of humility before opening your yapper confirming you have zero clue.

You can start here:

https://www.amazon.com/Wings-Paradis.../dp/0970159447

Then go a tad more into detail about the post 9/11 world in Hawaii, the failed merger, Hawaiian's 2003 bankruptcy, Aloha's 2004 bankruptcy and the aftermath of both going into 2008. That's some fascinating reading, and it's enlightening. If you had any clue about it, you wouldn't be spouting off like you are.

As for Opakapaka, I'd say he probably forgot more than some Comair/NetJets kid now at Hawaiian ever knew. ;)

I have nothing against Aloha at all... If you are referring to my comment about a handful of their pilots "thumping their chest" about buying out Hawaiian back in the mid 2000's.. I guess the Hawaiian pilots who told me this were flat out lying.

As far as Opakapaka, his previous posts on this thread have done nothing but confirm he holds a grudge against Hawaiian. And every statement he makes here is with the biased he has formed from his time at Aloha towards the end.

I probably won't shop for your book on Amazon concerning the post 9/11 world in Hawaii. I lived/worked through it on the mainland. Congrats you've pegged me for a Comair/Netjets guy.. Now figure out where I was at pre-9/11 or post Delta bankruptcy.

You misenterpeted my post. I know every one of the AQ hires at HAL and like them all. My mention of no loyalty was meant to the locals. I thought being the local carrier meant something when Mesa came out. Looks like $19 ow fares trump the local carrier. We can coexist no prob. As I’ve mentioned to my friends there, Alaska has the most to lose not HAL. Am I still tainted when a few of you touted Victory when we folded, SURE. You would too! BTW, get over the lecture of you’re probably upset you didn’t get hired speech cause of blacklisted. That just shows your large EGO. BTW, if you knew your sh$t you’d know Aloha’s net worth was more then Hawaiians at the time of merger talks. Do your due diligence before you spout off your thought. Maybe you too carried the victory flag. (Hmm wonder if your "long haul" MAX8 has anything to do with it?) WOW....really? I rest my case regarding EGO. Below the belt hit.... You should enjoy the competition because this makes companies stronger. Cheers

HAL by far.

In the mid-2000's, both airlines were struggling to survive and they just walked away from a merger a few years prior. Talking about either one buying the other was at best, cockpit CEO talk... especially with Mesa/go!'s impending market entry.

Clearly, you don't know your own airline's history outside of cockpit. If you did, you wouldn't be talking. You'd be listening, you'd engage constructively and you'd drop the cockiness.

It's not my book, but it is a book that virtually every pilot based in Hawaii should have. I was hoping for the newest edition to include the events of 2008, but no such luck. There are some articles on www.airlinesofhawaii.com that carry on after the publishing of the book. But the mere fact that you outright dismiss it just further proves my point about your ignorant cockiness.

As to your last point about your history... you missed the point, again.

I have very limited knowledge about Comair, Delta, or NetJets. I know a bit from my friends and from here, but definitely not enough to get into an argument with someone like yourself who's been there, lived through it, and now talk about it. Instead, I'd listen to you and unless you gave me a reason not to, I'd believe you. If I wanted to research the topic a bit more, I'd go to an unbiased source. But what I wouldn't do would be showing my okole by acting like one.

It's true that Hawaiian took the largest number of laid off Aloha pilots. What you may or may not know is that Southwest is where the second largest group of former Aloha pilots found their new home. Nobody is cheering for Hawaiian to disappear or to be put against the ropes, or suffer yet another difficult period, especially those who had to start over and there are plenty of those in your ranks as well as ours. But when someone who went through this speaks, and you haven't been through it with this airline or in this market, it behooves you listen... you just might learn something new.