Pinnacle hiring...
01-28-2011 | 09:51 AM
#411
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 433
Likes: 10
From: Zee Airboos
With the new contract, they an JR assign me all they want. I'll take the 200% and the comp day. You WILL profit from this. From a road show extreme case...
You get Jr assigned on a day off for 8 hours worth of credit. Thats now worth 16 hours. You pick a comp day later in the month worth 8 hours of flying. You can either sit on your tail and take the extra day off worth 8 hours, or if you want to make some $$, pick something up. Lets say its worth 5 credit hours. You are now making an extra 7.5 hours on top of the 16 + 8 just for one day of work. One less day off for 31.5 hours of pay. Cha-Ching $$$$$
You get Jr assigned on a day off for 8 hours worth of credit. Thats now worth 16 hours. You pick a comp day later in the month worth 8 hours of flying. You can either sit on your tail and take the extra day off worth 8 hours, or if you want to make some $$, pick something up. Lets say its worth 5 credit hours. You are now making an extra 7.5 hours on top of the 16 + 8 just for one day of work. One less day off for 31.5 hours of pay. Cha-Ching $$$$$
01-28-2011 | 09:58 AM
#412
Moderator
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,080
Likes: 42
With the new contract, they an JR assign me all they want. I'll take the 200% and the comp day. You WILL profit from this. From a road show extreme case...
You get Jr assigned on a day off for 8 hours worth of credit. Thats now worth 16 hours. You pick a comp day later in the month worth 8 hours of flying. You can either sit on your tail and take the extra day off worth 8 hours, or if you want to make some $$, pick something up. Lets say its worth 5 credit hours. You are now making an extra 7.5 hours on top of the 16 + 8 just for one day of work. One less day off for 31.5 hours of pay. Cha-Ching $$$$$
You get Jr assigned on a day off for 8 hours worth of credit. Thats now worth 16 hours. You pick a comp day later in the month worth 8 hours of flying. You can either sit on your tail and take the extra day off worth 8 hours, or if you want to make some $$, pick something up. Lets say its worth 5 credit hours. You are now making an extra 7.5 hours on top of the 16 + 8 just for one day of work. One less day off for 31.5 hours of pay. Cha-Ching $$$$$
You could even pick a 7 hour day that you have as a comp day and then ask to pick up that EXACT trip out of open time and get paid 10.5 hours.
01-28-2011 | 03:36 PM
#413
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 691
Likes: 0
That does sound like a good deal, almost half a month of pay for working two extra days. I wonder if when all this gets sorted out they will run a properly staffed airline. If they have to junior-man 3 people a month it would be cheaper to hire someone and pay them to sit reserve.
01-28-2011 | 04:14 PM
#414
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,792
Likes: 0
From: Doing what you do, for less.
If anyone thinks they're going to be making a goldmine on some line in the contract, you're wrong.
They won't be paying you a huge amount of cash. ALPA is telling you a story that sounds good, but will never happen. It won't be cheaper to hire someone if they have to JA 3 times a month, it will be cheaper to cancel the flights. And everyone knows they're more than willing to cancel a lot more than 3 flights a month (maybe 3 an hour?) before they even think about needing more staffing.
ALPA is trying to sell you a contract by misrepresenting what will happen to you under it. They didn't score anything of major monetary value here, or in many other sections. They can't even get you guys to get paid on the anniversary of when you started even though they're changing your date of hire. From what I've seen of this contract, I definitely would want to make sure I'm not looking at it all through rose colored glasses. It ain't all that great and for a lot of pilots, they're probably going to wish they were under the old agreement once they see what life is like under this new one.
They won't be paying you a huge amount of cash. ALPA is telling you a story that sounds good, but will never happen. It won't be cheaper to hire someone if they have to JA 3 times a month, it will be cheaper to cancel the flights. And everyone knows they're more than willing to cancel a lot more than 3 flights a month (maybe 3 an hour?) before they even think about needing more staffing.
ALPA is trying to sell you a contract by misrepresenting what will happen to you under it. They didn't score anything of major monetary value here, or in many other sections. They can't even get you guys to get paid on the anniversary of when you started even though they're changing your date of hire. From what I've seen of this contract, I definitely would want to make sure I'm not looking at it all through rose colored glasses. It ain't all that great and for a lot of pilots, they're probably going to wish they were under the old agreement once they see what life is like under this new one.
Last edited by lolwut; 01-28-2011 at 05:04 PM.
01-29-2011 | 09:23 AM
#416
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,648
Likes: 0
If anyone thinks they're going to be making a goldmine on some line in the contract, you're wrong.
They won't be paying you a huge amount of cash. ALPA is telling you a story that sounds good, but will never happen. It won't be cheaper to hire someone if they have to JA 3 times a month, it will be cheaper to cancel the flights. And everyone knows they're more than willing to cancel a lot more than 3 flights a month (maybe 3 an hour?) before they even think about needing more staffing.
ALPA is trying to sell you a contract by misrepresenting what will happen to you under it. They didn't score anything of major monetary value here, or in many other sections. They can't even get you guys to get paid on the anniversary of when you started even though they're changing your date of hire. From what I've seen of this contract, I definitely would want to make sure I'm not looking at it all through rose colored glasses. It ain't all that great and for a lot of pilots, they're probably going to wish they were under the old agreement once they see what life is like under this new one.
They won't be paying you a huge amount of cash. ALPA is telling you a story that sounds good, but will never happen. It won't be cheaper to hire someone if they have to JA 3 times a month, it will be cheaper to cancel the flights. And everyone knows they're more than willing to cancel a lot more than 3 flights a month (maybe 3 an hour?) before they even think about needing more staffing.
ALPA is trying to sell you a contract by misrepresenting what will happen to you under it. They didn't score anything of major monetary value here, or in many other sections. They can't even get you guys to get paid on the anniversary of when you started even though they're changing your date of hire. From what I've seen of this contract, I definitely would want to make sure I'm not looking at it all through rose colored glasses. It ain't all that great and for a lot of pilots, they're probably going to wish they were under the old agreement once they see what life is like under this new one.
01-29-2011 | 09:32 AM
#417
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,792
Likes: 0
From: Doing what you do, for less.
Alright Mr. negative, I think people deserve a better representation of this contract, other than just saying it's crappy. I understand there are s few places where we went backwords a little, but there is a lot of good in it also. From what I see, it is by far, a lot better than the current contract of 99 You sir spout off with only negative comments and a lot of assumptions. You must be a real joy to be around
> Reserves going back on reserve after finishing an assignment
> Out of base reserve
> 3x Increase in health insurance costs
> Less sick time accrual
> Seniority awarded training, reserve periods, trip trades (bad if you're on the bottom half of the list)
> No major protections or changes to sick policy
> No major protections or changes to hotels
Completely negligible "increases" that are still subpar including...
> Minuscule 401k increases for bottom half of pilot group
> Minuscule increase in reserve callout time
> 11 days off actually being 10, with "compensatory days" to make up for it - that you can't even use
> Negotiated new corrected DoH not changing your pay, vacation, etc
> Minuscule gains in duty/rest limits
Lots of other sections that are do nothing, laughable, and/or full of holes. I'll try to get more info later. If any of these quoted details are wrong, please let me know, I'll gladly accept my error. I started looking into it to see how good you guys did, since everyone was so happy. It may be better than the old agreement but it is by no means something to be proud of. Your junior guys are getting one bad deal.
Have fun with your higher pay rates, you still won't be home or have the energy to do anything with your money.
01-29-2011 | 09:52 AM
#418
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 691
Likes: 0
In talking with a friend of mine over at Pinnacle that is pretty in tune with these things.... the new contract contains such items as:
> Reserves going back on reserve after finishing an assignment
> Out of base reserve
> 3x Increase in health insurance costs
> Less sick time accrual
> Seniority awarded training, reserve periods, trip trades (bad if you're on the bottom half of the list)
> No major protections or changes to sick policy
> No major protections or changes to hotels
Completely negligible "increases" that are still subpar including...
> Minuscule 401k increases for bottom half of pilot group
> Minuscule increase in reserve callout time
> 11 days off actually being 10, with "compensatory days" to make up for it - that you can't even use
> Negotiated new corrected DoH not changing your pay, vacation, etc
> Minuscule gains in duty/rest limits
Lots of other sections that are do nothing, laughable, and/or full of holes. I'll try to get more info later. If any of these quoted details are wrong, please let me know, I'll gladly accept my error. I started looking into it to see how good you guys did, since everyone was so happy. It may be better than the old agreement but it is by no means something to be proud of. Your junior guys are getting one bad deal.
Have fun with your higher pay rates, you still won't be home or have the energy to do anything with your money.
> Reserves going back on reserve after finishing an assignment
> Out of base reserve
> 3x Increase in health insurance costs
> Less sick time accrual
> Seniority awarded training, reserve periods, trip trades (bad if you're on the bottom half of the list)
> No major protections or changes to sick policy
> No major protections or changes to hotels
Completely negligible "increases" that are still subpar including...
> Minuscule 401k increases for bottom half of pilot group
> Minuscule increase in reserve callout time
> 11 days off actually being 10, with "compensatory days" to make up for it - that you can't even use
> Negotiated new corrected DoH not changing your pay, vacation, etc
> Minuscule gains in duty/rest limits
Lots of other sections that are do nothing, laughable, and/or full of holes. I'll try to get more info later. If any of these quoted details are wrong, please let me know, I'll gladly accept my error. I started looking into it to see how good you guys did, since everyone was so happy. It may be better than the old agreement but it is by no means something to be proud of. Your junior guys are getting one bad deal.
Have fun with your higher pay rates, you still won't be home or have the energy to do anything with your money.
It is all about perspective, this is a regional contract. What did you expect? I was all in favor of going for 13 min days per month, 5 hours min day but no one would listen to me. I wish they would of at least raised the bar some, maybe 12 days off on long bid months and a bump up to 4.25 for min day. Oh well, it is what it is.
01-29-2011 | 10:22 AM
#419
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 136
Likes: 0
From: In the doghouse
In talking with a friend of mine over at Pinnacle that is pretty in tune with these things.... the new contract contains such items as:
> Reserves going back on reserve after finishing an assignment
Different, but certainly better than a 17 hour reserve period.
> Out of base reserve
Actually a really decent deal for our junior commuters.
> 3x Increase in health insurance costs
It's true that health costs have risen for PNCL, but they are lower for Colgan and Mesaba. We are no worse off than any of the other regionals out there.
> Less sick time accrual
But a MUCH better sick plan, ESPECIALLY junior pilots.
> Seniority awarded training, reserve periods, trip trades (bad if you're on the bottom half of the list)
Since when has bidding for these events been WORSE than the company assigning them?
> No major protections or changes to sick policy
Completely wrong. There can be no blanket policies requesting doctors notes.
> No major protections or changes to hotels
Hotels have to be clean, secure, and offer standard amenities. We're here for work, not a vacation.
Completely negligible "increases" that are still subpar including...
> Minuscule 401k increases for bottom half of pilot group.
THis is a very good plan. Let's just imagine the uproar from the Mesaba folks had we changed it.
> Minuscule increase in reserve callout time
Either 2:45 or 3:00 from call to block out. This is pretty standard.
> 11 days off actually being 10, with "compensatory days" to make up for it - that you can't even use
Wrong on both accounts. It IS 11 days off for everybody and they MUST give you a comp day in the next month at the latest.
> Negotiated new corrected DoH not changing your pay, vacation, etc
This is correct, but it's call negotiation for a reason. We did what we could, and couldn't get everything.
> Minuscule gains in duty/rest limits
Completely incorrect. You would have to actually read the section to see that I'm right.
Lots of other sections that are do nothing, laughable, and/or full of holes. I'll try to get more info later.
Again, you couldn't actually know this if you haven't read it. Read all 300 pages, and THEN let me know how many loopholes you think there are.
If any of these quoted details are wrong, please let me know, I'll gladly accept my error.
I just did. I expect an apology soon.
I started looking into it to see how good you guys did, since everyone was so happy. It may be better than the old agreement but it is by no means something to be proud of. Your junior guys are getting one bad deal.
Have fun with your higher pay rates, you still won't be home or have the energy to do anything with your money.
> Reserves going back on reserve after finishing an assignment
Different, but certainly better than a 17 hour reserve period.
> Out of base reserve
Actually a really decent deal for our junior commuters.
> 3x Increase in health insurance costs
It's true that health costs have risen for PNCL, but they are lower for Colgan and Mesaba. We are no worse off than any of the other regionals out there.
> Less sick time accrual
But a MUCH better sick plan, ESPECIALLY junior pilots.
> Seniority awarded training, reserve periods, trip trades (bad if you're on the bottom half of the list)
Since when has bidding for these events been WORSE than the company assigning them?
> No major protections or changes to sick policy
Completely wrong. There can be no blanket policies requesting doctors notes.
> No major protections or changes to hotels
Hotels have to be clean, secure, and offer standard amenities. We're here for work, not a vacation.
Completely negligible "increases" that are still subpar including...
> Minuscule 401k increases for bottom half of pilot group.
THis is a very good plan. Let's just imagine the uproar from the Mesaba folks had we changed it.
> Minuscule increase in reserve callout time
Either 2:45 or 3:00 from call to block out. This is pretty standard.
> 11 days off actually being 10, with "compensatory days" to make up for it - that you can't even use
Wrong on both accounts. It IS 11 days off for everybody and they MUST give you a comp day in the next month at the latest.
> Negotiated new corrected DoH not changing your pay, vacation, etc
This is correct, but it's call negotiation for a reason. We did what we could, and couldn't get everything.
> Minuscule gains in duty/rest limits
Completely incorrect. You would have to actually read the section to see that I'm right.
Lots of other sections that are do nothing, laughable, and/or full of holes. I'll try to get more info later.
Again, you couldn't actually know this if you haven't read it. Read all 300 pages, and THEN let me know how many loopholes you think there are.
If any of these quoted details are wrong, please let me know, I'll gladly accept my error.
I just did. I expect an apology soon.
I started looking into it to see how good you guys did, since everyone was so happy. It may be better than the old agreement but it is by no means something to be proud of. Your junior guys are getting one bad deal.
Have fun with your higher pay rates, you still won't be home or have the energy to do anything with your money.
01-29-2011 | 10:28 AM
#420
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,648
Likes: 0
In talking with a friend of mine over at Pinnacle that is pretty in tune with these things.... the new contract contains such items as:
> Reserves going back on reserve after finishing an assignment
> Out of base reserve
> 3x Increase in health insurance costs
> Less sick time accrual
> Seniority awarded training, reserve periods, trip trades (bad if you're on the bottom half of the list)
> No major protections or changes to sick policy
> No major protections or changes to hotels
Completely negligible "increases" that are still subpar including...
> Minuscule 401k increases for bottom half of pilot group
> Minuscule increase in reserve callout time
> 11 days off actually being 10, with "compensatory days" to make up for it - that you can't even use
> Negotiated new corrected DoH not changing your pay, vacation, etc
> Minuscule gains in duty/rest limits
Lots of other sections that are do nothing, laughable, and/or full of holes. I'll try to get more info later. If any of these quoted details are wrong, please let me know, I'll gladly accept my error. I started looking into it to see how good you guys did, since everyone was so happy. It may be better than the old agreement but it is by no means something to be proud of. Your junior guys are getting one bad deal.
Have fun with your higher pay rates, you still won't be home or have the energy to do anything with your money.
> Reserves going back on reserve after finishing an assignment
> Out of base reserve
> 3x Increase in health insurance costs
> Less sick time accrual
> Seniority awarded training, reserve periods, trip trades (bad if you're on the bottom half of the list)
> No major protections or changes to sick policy
> No major protections or changes to hotels
Completely negligible "increases" that are still subpar including...
> Minuscule 401k increases for bottom half of pilot group
> Minuscule increase in reserve callout time
> 11 days off actually being 10, with "compensatory days" to make up for it - that you can't even use
> Negotiated new corrected DoH not changing your pay, vacation, etc
> Minuscule gains in duty/rest limits
Lots of other sections that are do nothing, laughable, and/or full of holes. I'll try to get more info later. If any of these quoted details are wrong, please let me know, I'll gladly accept my error. I started looking into it to see how good you guys did, since everyone was so happy. It may be better than the old agreement but it is by no means something to be proud of. Your junior guys are getting one bad deal.
Have fun with your higher pay rates, you still won't be home or have the energy to do anything with your money.
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