Well raising the minimum wage to a level where somoene can actually get by would help. Also inscreasing educational opportunities will help, just look at the difference between say states like..new york and florida. Theres more prisons then schools in florida and they throw everyone in jail for every little thing down there, somethings just not right about that. In an environment like that, it's pretty hard to suceed when you start out with very little.

 

of course there is always room for improvement, a perfect society cannot exist. With that being said i must admit, the opportunities now are quite high for anyone in this country. I mean public schools are available to everyone, and if you can't afford college, theres always the military. There is opportunity out there for almost everyone. Compared to other countries, it really makes u appreciate what we have. In a way , I do agree with you calcapt. There are nations out there where if you are born poor, you will stay poor. In America, you can study hard and become almost anything you desire. Scholarships are available especially to minorities, many of which go unclaimed.

 

WARNING: This clip has profanity. Chris Rock pontificates on life as only
Chris Rock can and speaks FREELY about race as only Chris Rock can. It seems almost tailor made for this thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q8LxO4wnCQ

Joe

 

First you have to realize that we are all children of God and all have good in us. Some of us stray and we need helo to get back onthe right track. As an example, when I was in High school, I wsnt the best student academically. I was in sepcial ed classes. My teachers told me that I couldnt make it in college. But Iknew I wanted to be a military pilot and to do that I needed a college degree. I could have given up and not went to college and got some minimum wage job, but I had mentors that taught me how to belive in myself. Now 20 years later this special ed student is a college grad, Army Officer, commercial pilot and police officer. If folks had just brushed me off and said "well he aint my problem" where would I be?

Of course you have ones that arent going to listen and they wil do the wrong thing. You cant help everybody, but we can try. When God gives us a gift,it is our responsibilty to share that gift with others. To encourage others. Not just lok at them ans "you stole, you will never amount to anything" I hope this answers your question.

As to your other point, I could care lessif you are black, green, purple or blue . But Iwill say this if you dont know your past you will never know your futue. DOug from jc.com is the same way. I met him inthe airport in ATL once and he was very snobbish to me when he saw me in my ramp agent uniform I told hom Iwanted to be an airline pilot but he just brushed me off. Had he seen me in my army LT uniform I am sure his reaction would have been differant, But thats ok. I dont need his mentorship. I have plenyt of ariline pilot mentors. But his would have been nice to have as well as anyone.

I'll cite another example.Ther arent many black female pilots. Why? Because they are not encouraged. We had a career fair once wher ein our booth we had airline pilots and FA's. These girls came over and automatically went over to the FA's they never even considered becomming pilots. Wyhy? Because that is what they have been brought oup to believe. From their parents to TV to their teachers. They were taught their limits were FA. That is why we dont have many seeking thefield of aviation. That kind of thinking needs to change.

 

I would be surprised to know that you are black, especially since you said in a earlier post that you were white. So which one is it?

 

Does it matter? I thought that was the whole point of the thread?

If size doesn't matter, why should race?
And how do you know my maiden name is not Gonzales or Ramirez?

 

I think the original question was should affirmative action be allowed in the airline industry? I don't think it should and here is why. Affirmative action is supposed to give an advantage to people who otherwise would be at a disadvantage. How are minorities at a disadvantage by the time they get to the airline interview? They have equal hours and qualifications as the rest meaning they have attended college, flown in the military, build up hours as a CFI/commuters, and other requirements that prove they have made it in today’s society. Just because you don't get called for an interview right away, or did not interview well does not mean the employer is racist and we should give you the job no matter what. Some kids are at a disadvantage. I don't live in a bubble and realize there are people that need help. Big brother/Big sister, and after school programs are excellent ways in which to contribute. Oh and before you label me as someone who "doesn't get it" I did not live in this country nor spoke English until I was 11 years old. I know from personal experience that hard work, dedication, and a dream will always get you far in this wonderful land of ours.

Herk

 

Sir,

Until you have walked a mile in the shoes of a minority, I don't think you'll ever see my point or any other minority point. I've gone to cargo outfits to attempt to get to know the people and when you hear racial slurs coming from the next room and they KNOW you are on the property, what does that tell you? Yeah, I'm SURE I'm in the next class.

I can't speak for others, but most of my former colleagues were invited to sit right seat on King Airs and Citations except for, you guessed it. Yours truly and one other head banger who is a friend of mine to this day. The women got most of that time followed by the white males who complained because the women were getting most of the time. When everyone else is getting a couple of hundred hours t-prop or jet time, and you dont, what does that say? I use crest and old spice like everyone else. I've gone to fly-ins in the south hosted by a club that had a lot of airline pilots. When I walk up and wave, they fold their arms and turn their backs. What's the next step after you try to say hello to people and they fold there arms and turn their backs? Light incense and sing Kum by Yah?

You know how I got my first regional airline job? I was flight instrucing by day and working another job by night. I was actually working three jobs at the time as two of the jobs were part time. One of the jobs was at an airline in a non-pilot postion. I did that for a year and "back doored" my way in through the help of some nice people. I'm sure it helped that I had instructed some of their friends and family and for their help, I'm grateful.

I'm sorry, Herk. I believe the day will come when there will be no need for apps to have boxes to check for race and gender. There are seven sides to every story, not just two. I'm sure that some non-minorities have perhaps experienced some of the above. Maybe not. My words are useless and so are my experiences, but they are my reality.

J

 

Not entirely correct. Pre 9/11, most minorities had about ONE HALF the flight times of white males, many with no PIC. Had they elected to actaully go through the upgrade process and suck up a potential substandard QOL as a junior CA to build competitve PIC time (in the case of a regional pilot) your statement would be true. Many chose to use AA (OBAP, the 99's, WIA, ect) and circumvent or fast track their way to a major. Sorry, but that is a FACT.

If anybody wants to dispute this, look at UAL's theortical interviewee selection process versus what their real world process was. Had UAL stuck with their system, the pilot demographic there would be ALOT different. BTW, in theory, UAL would have had the most fair, un-biased, non-descriminitory method of hiring pilots. Race/gender would never be an issue. Imagine if they ACTUALLY went by it.

If you have a short memory or are unfamiliar, educate yourself on UAL's pre 9/11 application process before posting an ignorant, emotional, knee-jerk response.

 

Do Jet,

United admitted to making mistakes. I'm not saying that they didn't do some crazy hiring practices to correct past wrongs. If you look back to one of my earlier posts I stated how some Employers past over well
qualified minorities year after year only to hire a lessor qualified minority in response to a law suit or an EEOC complaint. In a fair world, there never would have been a law suit or EEOC complaint for a minority to get a job. Oh, and for the record, I know plenty of none-minorities that were hired with no PIC. If you look back at another post of mine, Fed Ex didn't even require it. I tossed boxes with several non-minorities that didn't have college degrees or PIC and that is FACT. I've met college interns that were hired with no PIC. Non-minorities of course. Yes, United admitted to making mistakes. I'm fully aware of this and people like you do their part to keep it in the public eye. Well done.

J