Positive news thread
07-24-2020, 08:09 AM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Posts: 268
Actually, my biggest concern has nothing to do with the LOA or the Alaska flying. I was an FO for a LONG time, and most FO's simply can't afford to take a reduced credit line or an incentive line. If I'm doing my math correctly, a first-year FO on an incentive line would take home no more than about $1500-$1600 a month. This is marginally better than unemployment, but will barely cover rent in most parts of the west coast.
There's some other stuff to consider... namely, health insurance and currency. Health insurance during a pandemic is a no-brainer. For a professional pilot, currency and experience are also important. I think most of our junior pilots need to be weighing the benefits of being at least partially employed versus being furloughed and collecting unemployment.
As far as the Alaska flying... I would do it in a nanosecond. I did a little Alaska flying in the Dash, and I enjoyed it.
There's some other stuff to consider... namely, health insurance and currency. Health insurance during a pandemic is a no-brainer. For a professional pilot, currency and experience are also important. I think most of our junior pilots need to be weighing the benefits of being at least partially employed versus being furloughed and collecting unemployment.
As far as the Alaska flying... I would do it in a nanosecond. I did a little Alaska flying in the Dash, and I enjoyed it.
07-24-2020, 08:17 AM
#62
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2018
Posts: 99
Originally Posted by AirplanesRkewl
The company couldn't even follow the loa for incentive lines and the loa has the same wording for furlough protection. They could give one person il and one person leave and it would be cba compliant like they did with the incentive line loa. Luckily I think enough people will take leaves to avoid involuntary furloughs. Union could have fought for min credit or some sort of guarantee for the garbage Alaska flying. Will be interesting to see how much of it goes to OO since no one wants to do it. They should make the people that voted yes do the flying
I don't have any details of OO's contract with AAG, but it appears to be seriously in OO's favor and will always have us at a disadvantage. That being said, I don't think AAG will give OO the proprietary RNP approaches for Alaska, so we have that going for us. I think the best course of action now is to stick together as a pilot group and support the union, or as Dash said, put your name in the hat to potentially join them this fall.
It looks like the next few months are going to be a helluva ride.
07-24-2020, 09:52 AM
#63
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Joined APC: Aug 2019
Posts: 42
Originally Posted by porkchopexpress
You bring up a good point about the way the company took advantage of the language in the IL LOA, but I think the union did the best they could with the furlough mitigation and Alaska flying LOA. The most disappointing aspect of recent events to me was the low voter turnout in the pilot group for that LOA.
I don't have any details of OO's contract with AAG, but it appears to be seriously in OO's favor and will always have us at a disadvantage. That being said, I don't think AAG will give OO the proprietary RNP approaches for Alaska, so we have that going for us. I think the best course of action now is to stick together as a pilot group and support the union, or as Dash said, put your name in the hat to potentially join them this fall.
It looks like the next few months are going to be a helluva ride.
I don't have any details of OO's contract with AAG, but it appears to be seriously in OO's favor and will always have us at a disadvantage. That being said, I don't think AAG will give OO the proprietary RNP approaches for Alaska, so we have that going for us. I think the best course of action now is to stick together as a pilot group and support the union, or as Dash said, put your name in the hat to potentially join them this fall.
It looks like the next few months are going to be a helluva ride.
07-24-2020, 10:03 AM
#64
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2018
Posts: 99
Originally Posted by AirplanesRkewl
King salmon has an ils and dlg has rnav approaches. Never had any problems getting into either airport really when I was flying up there. I don't think having rnp is gonna make a difference giving OO flying and furloughing qx pilots if it comes down to it on the end.
07-24-2020, 01:19 PM
#65
Works Fri-Sun, golf M-Th
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Position: Golf Cart
Posts: 264
Originally Posted by DashAviator
I am a little confused by your comment. What were your concerns regarding the LOA and the Alaska flying? And what do you expect the union to "do for the pilot group"?
To be clear, the Alaska flying was going to happen whether we wanted it or not. Alaska Air Group owns the planes and has total control over our flying and markets. Our union basically was able to implement a furlough mitigation program in exchange for some of the company's conditions on the Alaska flying (the "base within a base" concept and pilot experience requirements). Having SOME plan for reducing furloughs is a "win" in my book.
I have been here through 9/11. the 2009-2011 recession, and the current pandemic. Here's how the COMPANY and the UNION have responded to those previous downturns:
9/11: "You're furloughed! Here's the phone number for the unemployment office. Don't let the door hit you on the way out".
2009-2011: "You're furloughed! Here's the web site address for the unemployment office. Don't let the door hit you on the way out".
2020: The company and the union put together a furlough mitigation program.
Finally, a union is only as strong as the pilot group. It's easy to complain about "The Union" (and, trust me, I've done plenty of it), but we all need to do our part. The furlough mitigation LOA passed with only about 60% of our pilot group taking the time to vote. Why wasn't this 100%? If you don't like what the union is doing, then get involved... make it work for you.
To be clear, the Alaska flying was going to happen whether we wanted it or not. Alaska Air Group owns the planes and has total control over our flying and markets. Our union basically was able to implement a furlough mitigation program in exchange for some of the company's conditions on the Alaska flying (the "base within a base" concept and pilot experience requirements). Having SOME plan for reducing furloughs is a "win" in my book.
I have been here through 9/11. the 2009-2011 recession, and the current pandemic. Here's how the COMPANY and the UNION have responded to those previous downturns:
9/11: "You're furloughed! Here's the phone number for the unemployment office. Don't let the door hit you on the way out".
2009-2011: "You're furloughed! Here's the web site address for the unemployment office. Don't let the door hit you on the way out".
2020: The company and the union put together a furlough mitigation program.
Finally, a union is only as strong as the pilot group. It's easy to complain about "The Union" (and, trust me, I've done plenty of it), but we all need to do our part. The furlough mitigation LOA passed with only about 60% of our pilot group taking the time to vote. Why wasn't this 100%? If you don't like what the union is doing, then get involved... make it work for you.
I do agree with you on the pilot group statement but don't share the same perspective on the % of those who did/did not vote. I believe a lot didn't see the point because as you stated in another post, "The AK flying was going to happen anyway" well so was the furlough mitigation. In fact, We already saw this play by the company in March with the LOA with the union on incentive lines and TOWP to lessen the cash burn. The UNION should have asked for something, anything to help. Min daily for the 175? Commuter hotels? Maybe not the time to try and strangle the COMPANY but if they are coming to the UNION with something they want, lets work something we really want/need too.
07-24-2020, 02:38 PM
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Posts: 268
Originally Posted by TyWebb
Respectfully, there's a huge difference between all those three events you mentioned above.... government $$. 2020 downturn would have been the same as 2001/2008 otherwise.
I do agree with you on the pilot group statement but don't share the same perspective on the % of those who did/did not vote. I believe a lot didn't see the point because as you stated in another post, "The AK flying was going to happen anyway" well so was the furlough mitigation. In fact, We already saw this play by the company in March with the LOA with the union on incentive lines and TOWP to lessen the cash burn. The UNION should have asked for something, anything to help. Min daily for the 175? Commuter hotels? Maybe not the time to try and strangle the COMPANY but if they are coming to the UNION with something they want, lets work something we really want/need too.
I do agree with you on the pilot group statement but don't share the same perspective on the % of those who did/did not vote. I believe a lot didn't see the point because as you stated in another post, "The AK flying was going to happen anyway" well so was the furlough mitigation. In fact, We already saw this play by the company in March with the LOA with the union on incentive lines and TOWP to lessen the cash burn. The UNION should have asked for something, anything to help. Min daily for the 175? Commuter hotels? Maybe not the time to try and strangle the COMPANY but if they are coming to the UNION with something they want, lets work something we really want/need too.
What if we'd voted down the LOA? The company would have simply forced our E175 pilots to do the flying (no min guarantee, no commuter hotels, no nothing) and furloughed anyone they didn't need. At least this way, E175 pilots that don't want to do the flying don't have to. And yes, I know that this is supposed to be a two-year deal. But first, the pilot group and the company have to get through the next two years.
07-24-2020, 05:17 PM
#67
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 74
It's actually beneficial to the company to offer incentive lines because they can choose exactly which seat and base gets it. A furlough would just cause a bunch of training events. They said that during one of the union roadshows and that's what convinced me
07-31-2020, 07:47 AM
#70
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Position: Captain
Posts: 283
Originally Posted by BigfatQ
No furloughs for now!
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