What's happening at Horizon and Jets?
02-18-2016, 06:43 AM
#591
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Joined APC: Apr 2014
Posts: 136
Originally Posted by trip
The 900 is actually pretty decent compared to the 700, much more capable aircraft. Certainly not a 175 in the cabin but I will say it's more comfortable in the DL configuration then the godawful back breaker seats SKYW/UA put in their 175's.
I heard it is kind of a pig, compared to the 700? I've only flown the 700, but was told by those who had flown them all that it is in the sweet spot. The 900 is stretched too far, and therefore under-powered.
02-18-2016, 07:28 AM
#592
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Joined APC: Apr 2014
Posts: 136
Originally Posted by cactusflyer
I can kind of see the logic there, since taking introducing someone straight from a GA environment and simultaneously introducing them to part 121 operations and faster airplanes and expecting them to learn that in an airplane that has more workarounds and exceptions than actual procedures really is asking for training issues, especially in this hiring environment.
That said, taking someone who spent four years on a well designed airplane and then upgrading them into the Q400 is certainly going to cause it's share of training shennanigans, but maybe QX is banking on having swapped most of the 400's for jets by the time that problem might present itself.
On the plus side, I believe one of the people who was "right-sized" in the Portland bloodbath a few weeks ago is the person largely responsible for why the Q400 is so over-proceduralized, so maybe the learning curve on the airplane will get slightly less absurd under whoever gets that job next.
That said, taking someone who spent four years on a well designed airplane and then upgrading them into the Q400 is certainly going to cause it's share of training shennanigans, but maybe QX is banking on having swapped most of the 400's for jets by the time that problem might present itself.
On the plus side, I believe one of the people who was "right-sized" in the Portland bloodbath a few weeks ago is the person largely responsible for why the Q400 is so over-proceduralized, so maybe the learning curve on the airplane will get slightly less absurd under whoever gets that job next.
I'd be pretty slow to criticize QX's flight standards department. The company has an incredible safety record, and a big part of that is the safety culture that has resulted in trapping systemic errors via procedural revisions.
Don't get me wrong, the blue-sheet squadron can definitely be a pain in the ass (every revision comes with a subsequent revision correcting the previous revision's errors, omissions, and/or ambiguities), but the end result is an incredibly safe operation, considering it's operating arguably the most complex, poorly engineered (common type rating or death- or both!) regional airliner in the least forgiving environments. That airplane hates you, and wants you dead. It will try to get ya in many subtle ways, which is why I toed a pretty hard line on flying fatigued at QX.
There are a helluva lot of procedures, but then, the crews do a helluva lot with the airplane: RNP, CATIII, extensive mountain flying, etc. That's just going to necessitate a lot of procedures.
I've never worked for another company so bloated with middle management fluff and bull**** (Ready, Safe, Go!), but the flight ops department, as a whole, is top-notch.
Catch a brother up, though...who got chopped recently??? Was it the right people, for once?
02-18-2016, 07:37 AM
#593
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Joined APC: Feb 2015
Position: Downward Dog
Posts: 1,877
Originally Posted by HeadInTheTops
I heard it is kind of a pig, compared to the 700? I've only flown the 700, but was told by those who had flown them all that it is in the sweet spot. The 900 is stretched too far, and therefore under-powered.
02-18-2016, 07:42 AM
#594
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Joined APC: Apr 2014
Posts: 136
Originally Posted by Packrat
Not only possible, but plausible as well. Read the follow on comments. As Skywest gets bigger jets and the fee for service stays reasonable, AS will always go where the yield action is. And for the Q400, that action is up north, especially if they get into the SE Alaska flying.
AS can get just as much EAS money out of the Feds with a Q400 as it can with a 737. I can see the 737s in PAKT and PAJN and the rest of the SE serviced by the Q.
AS can get just as much EAS money out of the Feds with a Q400 as it can with a 737. I can see the 737s in PAKT and PAJN and the rest of the SE serviced by the Q.
This is what got me off my ass to get out of QX after 15yrs. When they erased our brand and turned us into a CPA carrier (which we formerly weren't), it said to me, "We are preparing to whipsaw you against non-union coattail riders!"
Kinda bummed I was right, but there is no respect for the worker in most of this business, anymore. We are a necessary evil when an airline becomes a spreadsheet with wings.
02-19-2016, 08:41 PM
#595
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Have all the Dash 8 Q400 operators had as much trouble with training new hires and captain upgrades as Horizon....Training a HUD adds a couple of hours and RNP adds a couple hours but aside from that it seems you guys do the same as everyone else.....will be telling if and when Horizon tries go get a new fleet up and running....
02-19-2016, 09:48 PM
#596
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Joined APC: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,210
Originally Posted by Klsytakesit
Have all the Dash 8 Q400 operators had as much trouble with training new hires and captain upgrades as Horizon....Training a HUD adds a couple of hours and RNP adds a couple hours but aside from that it seems you guys do the same as everyone else.....will be telling if and when Horizon tries go get a new fleet up and running....
02-20-2016, 04:13 AM
#597
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was not really thinking just the U S....lots of them out there in the world..We used to pride ourselves at Alaska Airlines on having the longest, most expensive, most difficult to pass 737 training programs in the world....on what is likely the easiest, least technologicaly advanced jet in the world....Then one day the money guys noticed and it was over
02-22-2016, 07:01 AM
#600
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Joined APC: Apr 2014
Posts: 136
Originally Posted by pete2800
Well, there's only one other Q400 operator in the US, and they're parking that fleet, and the previous owner of those airplanes crashed one. So it's tough to make a good comparison.
QX has always had excellent training. Failures increasing are an obvious result of average TT/experience going down.
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