Notices

Negotiating updates

Old 04-05-2018 | 04:53 AM
  #211  
Banned
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,473
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by rvr1800
I used to share that optimism. I no longer do. I believe the company is making purely business decisions regarding this pilot group. They’ve taken all emotion out of it therefore so have I. That’s not the company we were sold but that’s the company we work at now. I’ve maintained my core values of Safety and Integrity. Caring, Fun, and Passion are distant memories. Almost completely forgotten and maybe impossible to regain. The company has also given up on Caring, Fun, and Passion but I believe integrity as well. As demonstrated in a less than honest negotiations update regarding Alaska rates.

We as pilots have more invested in this company than anyone in management. Most of us will be here for our careers. Most of management will not. We must ensure we make the right decisions for our future and the future of the pilots to come after us. That means, at a minimum, a market rate contract. Alaska rates and work rules do not define the market. Far from it.

I trust our NC and MEC to fight for what we deserve but it may be a long hard road that will test this pilot group, the management team, and jetBlue as a company. We must do what is right for this industry and our careers.

Ramble off/
Agreed completely. Management hasn't shown any sign of a TA anytime soon.
Reply
Old 04-05-2018 | 05:14 AM
  #212  
The REAL Bluedriver
 
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,935
Likes: 0
From: Airbus Capt
Default

Originally Posted by rvr1800
I used to share that optimism. I no longer do. I believe the company is making purely business decisions regarding this pilot group. They’ve taken all emotion out of it therefore so have I. That’s not the company we were sold but that’s the company we work at now. I’ve maintained my core values of Safety and Integrity. Caring, Fun, and Passion are distant memories. Almost completely forgotten and maybe impossible to regain. The company has also given up on Caring, Fun, and Passion but I believe integrity as well. As demonstrated in a less than honest negotiations update regarding Alaska rates.

We as pilots have more invested in this company than anyone in management. Most of us will be here for our careers. Most of management will not. We must ensure we make the right decisions for our future and the future of the pilots to come after us. That means, at a minimum, a market rate contract. Alaska rates and work rules do not define the market. Far from it.

I trust our NC and MEC to fight for what we deserve but it may be a long hard road that will test this pilot group, the management team, and jetBlue as a company. We must do what is right for this industry and our careers.

Ramble off/
Wow, you're really negative.


















And 100% correct.
Reply
Old 04-05-2018 | 05:31 AM
  #213  
Banned
 
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,132
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by rvr1800
I used to share that optimism. I no longer do. I believe the company is making purely business decisions regarding this pilot group. They’ve taken all emotion out of it therefore so have I. That’s not the company we were sold but that’s the company we work at now. I’ve maintained my core values of Safety and Integrity. Caring, Fun, and Passion are distant memories. Almost completely forgotten and maybe impossible to regain. The company has also given up on Caring, Fun, and Passion but I believe integrity as well. As demonstrated in a less than honest negotiations update regarding Alaska rates.

We as pilots have more invested in this company than anyone in management. Most of us will be here for our careers. Most of management will not. We must ensure we make the right decisions for our future and the future of the pilots to come after us. That means, at a minimum, a market rate contract. Alaska rates and work rules do not define the market. Far from it.

I trust our NC and MEC to fight for what we deserve but it may be a long hard road that will test this pilot group, the management team, and jetBlue as a company. We must do what is right for this industry and our careers.

Ramble off/

That is the truth of it.

Never let anyone ever again fall for the emotional exploitation of family, caring, compassion, etc. These are one-way streets. Management 101 MBAs will always exploit your good sides, your human sides. They will personify the "corporation" so that you treat it with all the benefits of a family member or close friend, as another human being. However, the company will never jump on the grenade for you or do anything for you if you become too big a liability. A company is a legal entity, nothing more. The ONLY thing this company, as a legal entity, will ever do is to maximize profits for shareholders, fund golden parachutes, and lower its costs so that its balance sheet looks better to a buyer.

It really bothers me when corporations masquerade themselves under monikers such as family, culture, values, and so on. It's all spin for the intellectually disadvantaged. There are much better priorities in life than some empty corporate spin. It's better to focus on God, family, friends, and neighbors. Everything else just leads to making more money for your employer.

Come to work, make good friends, enjoy the travel, but never trust people who make you sign contracts or hide contracts in mandatory training. They are not your friends or family.




This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.
Reply
Old 04-05-2018 | 06:29 AM
  #214  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,274
Likes: 55
From: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
Default

Originally Posted by hilltopflyer
I'm optimistic that it'll be right after the fa vote and before summer but the company hasn't shown any sign that is what they are going to do. The ball is in their court. They know what we want and what it'll take to get a yes vote. It just depends on how hard they wanna dig their heels in and ruin this company
That is the question.
Will it ruin the company? I don’t know, I have asked myself that and I’m not sure. Obviously the “culture” has changed and everyone seems annoyed. But would getting a CBA and knowing where the company is going change that? In some ways this culture change is good. It is time for the company to grow up. As Barger would say what got us here won’t get us there. I think we need a different CEO. I think RH is a smart guy but he needs to be in a different position on the leadership team. I feel his leadership style is to talk to the LSC guys and pretty much ignore the rest of us.
Maybe the guy has an actual plan but we sure had heck haven’t seen it.
Reply
Old 04-05-2018 | 07:45 AM
  #215  
LoudFastRules's Avatar
Saab Saab Phooey!
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 480
Likes: 0
From: Set Hundo
Default

Originally Posted by pilotpayne
That is the question.
Will it ruin the company? I don’t know, I have asked myself that and I’m not sure. Obviously the “culture” has changed and everyone seems annoyed. But would getting a CBA and knowing where the company is going change that? In some ways this culture change is good. It is time for the company to grow up. As Barger would say what got us here won’t get us there. I think we need a different CEO. I think RH is a smart guy but he needs to be in a different position on the leadership team. I feel his leadership style is to talk to the LSC guys and pretty much ignore the rest of us.
Maybe the guy has an actual plan but we sure had heck haven’t seen it.
I haven't seen any evidence that RH is a "smart guy". He's a non-entity. He personifies de-minimus. The company has no vision, no plan, and doesn't seem to care. Now, having said all that, I just want a CBA. Their lack of vision, lack of planning, and lack of leadership is their problem, not mine. Let the board figure that one out. Just give me a CBA, and let me bid and work my schedule.

FUPM
Reply
Old 04-05-2018 | 07:54 AM
  #216  
Banned
 
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,132
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by pilotpayne
That is the question.
Will it ruin the company? I don’t know, I have asked myself that and I’m not sure. Obviously the “culture” has changed and everyone seems annoyed. But would getting a CBA and knowing where the company is going change that? In some ways this culture change is good. It is time for the company to grow up. As Barger would say what got us here won’t get us there. I think we need a different CEO. I think RH is a smart guy but he needs to be in a different position on the leadership team. I feel his leadership style is to talk to the LSC guys and pretty much ignore the rest of us.
Maybe the guy has an actual plan but we sure had heck haven’t seen it.
Don't believe for a second that anything the pilot or FA union do will sink the company. That is a false choice and non-truthful narrative put out by people who want to maximize their profit margins at your expense (CEO, VPs, SVPs, investors, shareholders, special interests, union busters).

If an airline goes under, it won't ever be because of the cost of having humans. If the operating cost increases, fares go up by a penny or two. It's no different than dealing with fluctuating fuel prices. It's just the cost of doing business. The only difference between pilots/FAs and other overhead costs is that others are not very negotiable. For example, Airbus doesn't flex too much on their prices. Spare parts aren't really negotiable prices unless purchased in quantity. Pilots and FAs, on the other hand, have essentially told management that our compensation is always negotiable with no bottom. So, they will manufacture scenarios where they can make a logical case for paying employees less. For example, look at the Trump tax cuts. It's historic in quantity yet you only got $1,000. How much is BJ saving? Did they use that money to manipulate stock options?

Bottom line is that BJ could pay Delta rates+, give industry leading contractual work rules, and STILL be highly profitable. If they're not, the blame falls squarely on the management of the company. Remember that management has secret and public objectives. You don't know what secret objectives they have because they will not benefit you.


This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.
Reply
Old 04-05-2018 | 07:55 AM
  #217  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,274
Likes: 55
From: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
Default

Originally Posted by LoudFastRules
I haven't seen any evidence that RH is a "smart guy". He's a non-entity. He personifies de-minimus. The company has no vision, no plan, and doesn't seem to care. Now, having said all that, I just want a CBA. Their lack of vision, lack of planning, and lack of leadership is their problem, not mine. Let the board figure that one out. Just give me a CBA, and let me bid and work my schedule.

FUPM
I always like when people say give me a CBA I don’t care about the vision or the planning or anything like that.

That is a good way to have a CBA but no airline.

Look is there anything we can do about that not really, but I would prefer our airline be around. Lack of vision or any plan is concerning.
Reply
Old 04-05-2018 | 08:34 AM
  #218  
Banned
 
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,132
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by pilotpayne
Look is there anything we can do about that not really, but I would prefer our airline be around. Lack of vision or any plan is concerning.

There is a vision, but it doesn't involve you. Sinking your own company is a viable way to get yourself sold. Think about it. Their ONLY concern is reducing costs and maximizing profit.

Listen to investor meetings. 95% of the conversation is about RASM, PRASM, overhead cost, network capacity (overcapacity), fleet plans, routes, and overall financials. If employee compensation were such a big deal, it would occupy more than 1 question.

Don't be misled into thinking there's no plan. There is a plan - multiple plans in fact. You just don't know about them. However, you can be guaranteed none of them are designed to be in your best interests. So, it's your duty to look out for yourself via the union. Make yourself a market force or else you will be a victim to whatever they end up doing.

This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.
Reply
Old 04-05-2018 | 08:39 AM
  #219  
Line Holder
 
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 271
Likes: 12
Default

The is a vision for B6. Its to run as lean as possible without taking catastrophic losses. You ever wonder why our stock sucks? Cause it’s so diluted from paying the higher ups with options. Every IROP costs us, yes but it’s far less than the overhead Que is talking about. They can afford the hiccups over time cause it’s cheaper than hiring more help. They want to shear the sheep as lean and as many times as possible without skinning it. That’s the vision. And we are sheep
Reply
Old 04-05-2018 | 10:08 AM
  #220  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,274
Likes: 55
From: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
Default

Originally Posted by queue
There is a vision, but it doesn't involve you. Sinking your own company is a viable way to get yourself sold. Think about it. Their ONLY concern is reducing costs and maximizing profit.

Listen to investor meetings. 95% of the conversation is about RASM, PRASM, overhead cost, network capacity (overcapacity), fleet plans, routes, and overall financials. If employee compensation were such a big deal, it would occupy more than 1 question.

Don't be misled into thinking there's no plan. There is a plan - multiple plans in fact. You just don't know about them. However, you can be guaranteed none of them are designed to be in your best interests. So, it's your duty to look out for yourself via the union. Make yourself a market force or else you will be a victim to whatever they end up doing.

This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.


Ha dude you need to fight Wall St.
I remember there was an article when AA pilots got a raise one of the analysts was literally like WTF who cares about them how about your investors. They talk about RASM and CASM because that’s all Wall St
gives a crap about. Let’s be realistic in the world of capitalism reducing cost and maximizing profit is the goal. Taking care of your people tends to be the exception to the norm.

We get stuck in we are to small so Wall St is like you are to small to compete than we say we want to grow and the freak about capacity it’s a no win situation.
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Baja
Cargo
11
09-04-2014 07:44 AM
Alan Shore
Major
117
03-07-2014 06:21 PM
Opposing View
Cargo
62
03-07-2011 04:55 PM
JetBlast77
Regional
0
11-17-2010 08:37 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices