AIP.
06-04-2018 | 04:19 AM
#761
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 489
Likes: 1
From: Ending the Backlog one claim at a time
Q,
That excerpt does not speak to any evolution of process in either party’s control. A minimum of 90 days status quo, which would likely be extended at the request of the president, until a final solution is imposed by congress under the commerce clause of the constitution. That solution would be binding under the existing framework of the RLA. If there are still parties to contract after the strike/lockout that could occur as early as the 90 day mark, but would likely be later by agreement due to pressure from congress and the president, a negotiated agreement may be reached. Or, the congressional solution would become the contract.
Labor has its best leverage during the negotiating and mediation phases. After that, the table is further tilted toward management simply because status quo, or something close to it, and expediency, are favorable to interruption in global commerce and the subsequent economic damage.
That excerpt does not speak to any evolution of process in either party’s control. A minimum of 90 days status quo, which would likely be extended at the request of the president, until a final solution is imposed by congress under the commerce clause of the constitution. That solution would be binding under the existing framework of the RLA. If there are still parties to contract after the strike/lockout that could occur as early as the 90 day mark, but would likely be later by agreement due to pressure from congress and the president, a negotiated agreement may be reached. Or, the congressional solution would become the contract.
Labor has its best leverage during the negotiating and mediation phases. After that, the table is further tilted toward management simply because status quo, or something close to it, and expediency, are favorable to interruption in global commerce and the subsequent economic damage.
Last edited by WhistlePig; 06-04-2018 at 04:21 AM. Reason: Clarity
06-04-2018 | 05:46 AM
#762
New Hire
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: 320 - CA
It would be hard for B6 pilots to argue they are not systematically important and therefore, the President of the United States will not allow the strike to occur.
Just a little clarification over part of what queue believes to be true.
06-04-2018 | 06:00 AM
#763
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,150
Likes: 0
From: Left,Right, Left, Right,Right,Left, Right, Left
Q is like Barney. Slightly less radical maybe.
Unfortunately... his ridiculous point of view and long diatribes produce the opposite result.
Or quite possibly he’s here from F&H. He’s here for organized confusion. Produce the most one sided argument that even the best supporters can’t support.
Unfortunately... his ridiculous point of view and long diatribes produce the opposite result.
Or quite possibly he’s here from F&H. He’s here for organized confusion. Produce the most one sided argument that even the best supporters can’t support.
06-04-2018 | 06:04 AM
#764
Banned
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,445
Likes: 0
Todd is absolutely correct. No matter what queue is attempting to throw at your group as "legally binding," this is not how it works. Ask yourself who and when was the last major airline that was allowed to strike. If you said Spirit in 2010 then you would be correct. Spirit was ONLY allowed to strike because they were NOT systematically important at the time. However, when they attempted this again in 2017, they were not allowed to strike.
It would be hard for B6 pilots to argue they are not systematically important and therefore, the President of the United States will not allow the strike to occur.
Just a little clarification over part of what queue believes to be true.
It would be hard for B6 pilots to argue they are not systematically important and therefore, the President of the United States will not allow the strike to occur.
Just a little clarification over part of what queue believes to be true.
We don't need to strike.
Soon, staffing will be next to impossible. Already there are no shows and training costs are up due to the turnover at the bottom. Fleet plans are on hold. Operational metrics are in the toilet. This place is hurting now and would be crying for mercy shortly no strike required.
Do not accept anything less than full legacy pay and benefits. We will never be in this position again.
06-04-2018 | 06:57 AM
#765
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 332
Likes: 0
We don't need to strike.
Soon, staffing will be next to impossible. Already there are no shows and training costs are up due to the turnover at the bottom. Fleet plans are on hold. Operational metrics are in the toilet. This place is hurting now and would be crying for mercy shortly no strike required.
Do not accept anything less than full legacy pay and benefits. We will never be in this position again.
Soon, staffing will be next to impossible. Already there are no shows and training costs are up due to the turnover at the bottom. Fleet plans are on hold. Operational metrics are in the toilet. This place is hurting now and would be crying for mercy shortly no strike required.
Do not accept anything less than full legacy pay and benefits. We will never be in this position again.
06-04-2018 | 08:50 AM
#766
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,047
Likes: 0
From: B6
More to it than that, but say what you want, just don't care.
I know I told the survey I was completely committed to a strike if necessary. What was your answer? Most of you weren't so willing, and that's a FACT.
And then there is the constant comments from you guys that say this AIP meets your survey responses. Says it all about this pilot group on average.
I know I told the survey I was completely committed to a strike if necessary. What was your answer? Most of you weren't so willing, and that's a FACT.
And then there is the constant comments from you guys that say this AIP meets your survey responses. Says it all about this pilot group on average.
The fact is you could be a lot of things but you hide.
06-04-2018 | 08:52 AM
#767
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,047
Likes: 0
From: B6
We don't need to strike.
Soon, staffing will be next to impossible. Already there are no shows and training costs are up due to the turnover at the bottom. Fleet plans are on hold. Operational metrics are in the toilet. This place is hurting now and would be crying for mercy shortly no strike required.
Do not accept anything less than full legacy pay and benefits. We will never be in this position again.
Soon, staffing will be next to impossible. Already there are no shows and training costs are up due to the turnover at the bottom. Fleet plans are on hold. Operational metrics are in the toilet. This place is hurting now and would be crying for mercy shortly no strike required.
Do not accept anything less than full legacy pay and benefits. We will never be in this position again.
06-04-2018 | 09:55 AM
#768
Banned
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,132
Likes: 0
Q,
That excerpt does not speak to any evolution of process in either party’s control. A minimum of 90 days status quo, which would likely be extended at the request of the president, until a final solution is imposed by congress under the commerce clause of the constitution. That solution would be binding under the existing framework of the RLA. If there are still parties to contract after the strike/lockout that could occur as early as the 90 day mark, but would likely be later by agreement due to pressure from congress and the president, a negotiated agreement may be reached. Or, the congressional solution would become the contract.
Labor has its best leverage during the negotiating and mediation phases. After that, the table is further tilted toward management simply because status quo, or something close to it, and expediency, are favorable to interruption in global commerce and the subsequent economic damage.
That excerpt does not speak to any evolution of process in either party’s control. A minimum of 90 days status quo, which would likely be extended at the request of the president, until a final solution is imposed by congress under the commerce clause of the constitution. That solution would be binding under the existing framework of the RLA. If there are still parties to contract after the strike/lockout that could occur as early as the 90 day mark, but would likely be later by agreement due to pressure from congress and the president, a negotiated agreement may be reached. Or, the congressional solution would become the contract.
Labor has its best leverage during the negotiating and mediation phases. After that, the table is further tilted toward management simply because status quo, or something close to it, and expediency, are favorable to interruption in global commerce and the subsequent economic damage.
When is the last time Congress forced an airline into a contract through law?
How many times has this happened?
What data do you have to backup the statement that best leverage = negotiation/mediation? Where do you get the notion that the "table tilted further towards management"? Do you have any historical precedence for this?
I'm not doubting what you're saying per sey, I just don't accept statements blindly without actual historical precedent. After all, I can't get past various airlines in the past (e.g. Delta) going on strike.
This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.
06-04-2018 | 09:57 AM
#769
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 332
Likes: 0
When is the last time Congress forced an airline into a contract through law?
How many times has this happened?
What data do you have to backup the statement that best leverage = negotiation/mediation? Where do you get the notion that the "table tilted further towards management"? Do you have any historical precedence for this?
I'm not doubting what you're saying per sey, I just don't accept statements blindly without actual historical precedent. After all, I can't get past various airlines in the past (e.g. Delta) going on strike.
This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.
How many times has this happened?
What data do you have to backup the statement that best leverage = negotiation/mediation? Where do you get the notion that the "table tilted further towards management"? Do you have any historical precedence for this?
I'm not doubting what you're saying per sey, I just don't accept statements blindly without actual historical precedent. After all, I can't get past various airlines in the past (e.g. Delta) going on strike.
This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.
The executive branch, not the legislative branch, executes the RLA, and is in charge of executing a PEB.
06-04-2018 | 09:58 AM
#770
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,286
Likes: 55
From: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
More to it than that, but say what you want, just don't care.
I know I told the survey I was completely committed to a strike if necessary. What was your answer? Most of you weren't so willing, and that's a FACT.
And then there is the constant comments from you guys that say this AIP meets your survey responses. Says it all about this pilot group on average.
I know I told the survey I was completely committed to a strike if necessary. What was your answer? Most of you weren't so willing, and that's a FACT.
And then there is the constant comments from you guys that say this AIP meets your survey responses. Says it all about this pilot group on average.
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