BunkerF16

It is bold. But that doesn't make it untrue. My point about BOS is that if you live near this airport, JB is most definitely a destination airline for you. QOL is everything in this industry and you can't beat driving to work. With BOS, right now, JB is the only game in town. If Delta, as rumored, makes BOS a pilot hub, all bets are off, and JB again becomes a stepping stone.

Listen, I get why guys would apply and accept offers to come here from regional and corporate jobs. It's better (in most cases) across the board here than at those locations. But the truth is, for the long term, as it sits right now, JB is bottom barrel of their peers right now, and the gap is widening with every year, and every new contract that will renegotiated ahead of us entering our next negotiation session in a few years.

So yeah, the truth hurts. I wish it wasn't this way. Maybe our negotiators, MEC and pilot group will grow a collective pair next time and we'll get a contract we can all be proud of. Not holding my breath though.

Roy Biggins

I’m just curious what you consider our peers? Legacies only (United, Delta, American)? Or all other majors included? I mean, I realize emotions are running kinda high right now, but let’s not get carried away. Yes, hopefully the next contract pulls us up toward the legacy carriers. The product we deliver on a regular basis would suggest we should be paid accordingly.

BunkerF16

Who do I consider my peers? UA, DL, AA, SW, AK

And we're trending further away from AK and SW with Mint and soon, Transatlantic flying and a potential 3d class cabin configuration.

Is that being carried away? Or do some justify our POS contract with excuses and inaccurate comparisons?

jamesholzhauer

Fwiw page 30 here shows who the board of directors uses as our peers when evaluating executive compensation. That is in line with the peers stated in our contract comparison guide.

AA/DL/UAL/SWA/AS/HAL/NK

Roy Biggins

Agreed. Point being, we are not the bottom of that list. I fully expect things to get better on the next contract (if we’re not sold/merged before that).

nuball5

I would add Spirit as well, they made some good gains. Southwest’s new contract comparison guide included them.

BunkerF16

I'm not saying Spirit doesn't have good parts of their contract. And my leaving airlines out in who I think is our peers, doesn't mean I don't have the greatest respect for the pilots there. I commute on Spirit all the time between DTW and BOS and I've never had l bad experience. Ever.

Having said that, in my opinion, I choose my peers based on similar products. I see Frontier and Spirit as ULCC only. Do we have some similarities in terms of aircraft and locations? Sure. But our products are completely different. And moving further and further away.

Keeping them in the comparison allows the company to keep a ULCC cost argument in the equation which I think needs to be eliminated.

Bluedriver

Management has every reason strategically to argue that Spirit is our pilot peer...

Why ANY JB pilot would also make that argument, strategically, is just plain strategic malpractice. Criminally strategic malpractice.

Bluedriver

Can you give us a general scenario that would prove his statement untrue?

Flyby1206

Spirit has some good contractual points, sure, but how are we the same as them?

Premium cabins, large hub cities where we focus our flying, RASM premium, more diverse fleet, dedicated frequent fliers, onboard product offering value.

I like Spirit, but I dont see many similarities in our business models beyond we both fly Airbuses.