Jumpseating
02-17-2006, 08:47 AM
#31
Need More Callouts
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Unbridled Enthusiasm
Posts: 2,143
Originally Posted by FlyByWire
Less and less folks will be getting jumpseats on union carriers. It's been done before, and there is a movement to do it again. crawdawg52 is not the only one of a growing group that is starting to wake up, and the letters to the various MEC's are flying. Just give it time but it is inevitable now.
Other than that, 99.9% of the guys we carry are outstanding individuals, (yes that absolutely includes Jet Blue).
02-17-2006, 04:18 PM
#32
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: A320 Left seat
Posts: 44
The ALPA position
Quote from a message today:
Quote:
During these times of airline turmoil, airlines may be tempted to place artificial restrictions -- specifically, those that do not involve safety concerns -- on using jumpseats. ALPA strongly disagrees with such restrictions and has always maintained that jumpseats should be off limits to any type of dispute that is not related to safety.[See the attached file]
ALPA's jumpseat policy, contained in Section 115 of the ALPA Administrative Manual, speaks directly to this subject: "ALPA supports the Captain's authority to exclude any person other than required crew from the flight deck if, in his opinion, that person's presence will compromise safety.
"Denial of jumpseat privileges as a means of punishing, coercing, or retaliating against other pilot groups or individuals is not supported by ALPA. The Jumpseat and/or Professional Standards Representative appointed by the respective Master Executive Council or governing body should resolve disputes that arise between pilots, airlines, or other unions."
ALPA's president, Capt. Duane Woerth, says, "Using jumpseats to retaliate against an individual, pilot group, or company is not only wrong. It could also result in violations of the Railway Labor Act, if pilots took those actions to harm a company during collective bargaining." Gigantic fines could be levied against a pilot group if its members misused jumpseats in this way.
"The jumpseat is a mutually beneficial tool that helps airlines and pilots by enhancing safety, security, and efficiency," Capt. Woerth noted. "Both parties must guard against any activities that may damage the viability of that invaluable resource."
Unquote.
Any questions FBW??
.
Quote:
During these times of airline turmoil, airlines may be tempted to place artificial restrictions -- specifically, those that do not involve safety concerns -- on using jumpseats. ALPA strongly disagrees with such restrictions and has always maintained that jumpseats should be off limits to any type of dispute that is not related to safety.[See the attached file]
ALPA's jumpseat policy, contained in Section 115 of the ALPA Administrative Manual, speaks directly to this subject: "ALPA supports the Captain's authority to exclude any person other than required crew from the flight deck if, in his opinion, that person's presence will compromise safety.
"Denial of jumpseat privileges as a means of punishing, coercing, or retaliating against other pilot groups or individuals is not supported by ALPA. The Jumpseat and/or Professional Standards Representative appointed by the respective Master Executive Council or governing body should resolve disputes that arise between pilots, airlines, or other unions."
ALPA's president, Capt. Duane Woerth, says, "Using jumpseats to retaliate against an individual, pilot group, or company is not only wrong. It could also result in violations of the Railway Labor Act, if pilots took those actions to harm a company during collective bargaining." Gigantic fines could be levied against a pilot group if its members misused jumpseats in this way.
"The jumpseat is a mutually beneficial tool that helps airlines and pilots by enhancing safety, security, and efficiency," Capt. Woerth noted. "Both parties must guard against any activities that may damage the viability of that invaluable resource."
Unquote.
Any questions FBW??
.
02-18-2006, 02:33 PM
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
Okay, let them deny jetblue pilots and other non union carriers pilots jumpseats.
However, once that door is opened, then next it will be AMR boys denying UAL or LCC, since one, they are different unions and two, compared to AMR, they both have "lowered" the bar. Then the AAI pilots gets mad at DAL etc, etc.
It is a slippery slope, once you start down, well, it is hard to stop.
However, this topic, denying jetblue jumpseats, have surfaced a couple of times, as far as I know, other than a few ****ed off NWA pilots, it hasn't come to much. Looking at route maps etc, I really cannot see where the big competetion between jbu and NWA ocurs, but clearly the NWA pilots see it!
However, once that door is opened, then next it will be AMR boys denying UAL or LCC, since one, they are different unions and two, compared to AMR, they both have "lowered" the bar. Then the AAI pilots gets mad at DAL etc, etc.
It is a slippery slope, once you start down, well, it is hard to stop.
However, this topic, denying jetblue jumpseats, have surfaced a couple of times, as far as I know, other than a few ****ed off NWA pilots, it hasn't come to much. Looking at route maps etc, I really cannot see where the big competetion between jbu and NWA ocurs, but clearly the NWA pilots see it!
02-18-2006, 04:06 PM
#34
AAmerican Way for AA Pay
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: B-737 Pilot
Posts: 1,617
Originally Posted by FlyByWire
It is not the Jumpseat coordinators that say yes or no it is the captains final decision. This is the grass roots effort. When the Jumpseat coordinators starts to see this shift it will be the form of an official letter. It is not that far along yet NO, I give you that, but it will be in good time. NWA has the largest group of Captains doing this now with Delta a close second. UAL is a bit behind now, but eventually they will move with it. Just wait till the end of the year, this effort was just started in November 2005.
I've been an ALPA Jumpseat Chairman and would NEVER, EVER endorse a so-called 'grass-roots effort' to deny jumpseats to pilots of an airline I had signed a reciprocal agreement with. It is UNprofessional and extremely risky, and may well backfire eventually.
Why are JetBlue pilots being singled out and denied j/s? JetBlue has a STELLAR reputation, in the legacy of TWA, Eastern, RenoAir, Piedmont, USAir, for getting nonrevs and jumpseaters onboard. They NEVER leave anyone behind until all seats are full. Why the hassle?
02-20-2006, 10:50 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: 737NG CA
Posts: 766
[QUOTE=RedeyeAV8r]
The thing most non-union pilots forget is that jumpseat privileges are NEGOTIATED. Delta (for example) did not even have access to jumpseats on their own airline until it was negotiated into their contract. And to get it, they had to give something up.
For a jetBlue (or any other non-union) pilot to assume or claim a "right" to a cockpit jumpseat is ludicrous at best. Especially when the degradation of wages and benefits in the entire profession is essentially driven down by the presence of people who work in a non-union shop voluntarily.
Originally Posted by greedyairlineexec
Union membership does have it's priviledges....................after all it was ALPA who got interline jumpseating in the first place!
For a jetBlue (or any other non-union) pilot to assume or claim a "right" to a cockpit jumpseat is ludicrous at best. Especially when the degradation of wages and benefits in the entire profession is essentially driven down by the presence of people who work in a non-union shop voluntarily.
02-20-2006, 11:07 AM
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
[QUOTE=Velocipede]
The thing most non-union pilots forget is that jumpseat privileges are NEGOTIATED. Delta (for example) did not even have access to jumpseats on their own airline until it was negotiated into their contract. And to get it, they had to give something up.
For a jetBlue (or any other non-union) pilot to assume or claim a "right" to a cockpit jumpseat is ludicrous at best. Especially when the degradation of wages and benefits in the entire profession is essentially driven down by the presence of people who work in a non-union shop voluntarily.
Do you work for Alaska Airlines?
Originally Posted by RedeyeAV8r
The thing most non-union pilots forget is that jumpseat privileges are NEGOTIATED. Delta (for example) did not even have access to jumpseats on their own airline until it was negotiated into their contract. And to get it, they had to give something up.
For a jetBlue (or any other non-union) pilot to assume or claim a "right" to a cockpit jumpseat is ludicrous at best. Especially when the degradation of wages and benefits in the entire profession is essentially driven down by the presence of people who work in a non-union shop voluntarily.
02-20-2006, 12:20 PM
#37
Guest
Posts: n/a
[QUOTE=Velocipede]
The thing most non-union pilots forget is that jumpseat privileges are NEGOTIATED. Delta (for example) did not even have access to jumpseats on their own airline until it was negotiated into their contract. And to get it, they had to give something up.
For a jetBlue (or any other non-union) pilot to assume or claim a "right" to a cockpit jumpseat is ludicrous at best. Especially when the degradation of wages and benefits in the entire profession is essentially driven down by the presence of people who work in a non-union shop voluntarily.
I'm still a Delta pilot (furloughee) working at JB. I think your wrong. I think the majority of jetBlue or any other LCC pilots who came from legacy carriers know it is negotiated. I also don't think the majority "claim a right to a jumpseat" I think they like any other airline pilot consider it a courtesy and present and ask the captain for permission to ride whether its in the cabin or Cockpit (CASS).
At any large organization there is always the "tool" who gets it wrong but they are so few and far between that I don't think that is what your referring to in your post. I jumpseat frequently and have never had a problem on AA,UAL,SWA,DAL or the many commuters I travel on.
I think someone in this thread was just trying to stir something up. I really see very little problem out there.
Originally Posted by RedeyeAV8r
The thing most non-union pilots forget is that jumpseat privileges are NEGOTIATED. Delta (for example) did not even have access to jumpseats on their own airline until it was negotiated into their contract. And to get it, they had to give something up.
For a jetBlue (or any other non-union) pilot to assume or claim a "right" to a cockpit jumpseat is ludicrous at best. Especially when the degradation of wages and benefits in the entire profession is essentially driven down by the presence of people who work in a non-union shop voluntarily.
At any large organization there is always the "tool" who gets it wrong but they are so few and far between that I don't think that is what your referring to in your post. I jumpseat frequently and have never had a problem on AA,UAL,SWA,DAL or the many commuters I travel on.
I think someone in this thread was just trying to stir something up. I really see very little problem out there.
02-21-2006, 01:22 PM
#38
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by HSLD
While the professional courtesy of offering the jumpseat to another pilot is at the Capt's discretion. It is a huge bummer when you see a guy (or gal) using the jumpseat to further a political agenda [SCABS aside] or personal grudge. The jumpseat is a benefit that we all have the opportunity to screw up, I'm sure that each company would jump at the chance to save monthly CASS fees if given the proper reason (like an pilot/union food fight). Just my two cents.
Always welcome, always!
02-21-2006, 01:31 PM
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by Kill Bill
nope. and virtually ALL eligible pilots are welcome on my jumpseat. i say "virtually" because there are 2 or 3 CO pilots who will never set foot on my airplane.
and was that sincere? you think i have multiple handles here?
and was that sincere? you think i have multiple handles here?
02-21-2006, 02:19 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: Retired 121 pilot
Posts: 1,032
Originally Posted by B757200ER
I've been an ALPA Jumpseat Chairman and would NEVER, EVER endorse a so-called 'grass-roots effort' to deny jumpseats to pilots of an airline I had signed a reciprocal agreement with. It is UNprofessional and extremely risky, and may well backfire eventually.
Of course, I had no choice with someone from the company I worked for.
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