JB and commuters
01-26-2019 | 10:09 AM
#81
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,700
Likes: 48
JB and commuters
Why should FAs care? Because the company is trying to hold onto them cleaning with a deathgrip and using the theoretical help from pilots and other employees to trivialize this part of the job.
For the record, I don't believe leadership when they say they will hold pilots (or anyone) accountable for not cleaning. Its just another tactic to mollify FAs and keep them cleaning in the upcoming contract. That does not change the fact that according to the written rules many Pilots are shirking their responsibility to clean and leaving their share for only a minority of employees and all the FAs to do..
For the record, I don't believe leadership when they say they will hold pilots (or anyone) accountable for not cleaning. Its just another tactic to mollify FAs and keep them cleaning in the upcoming contract. That does not change the fact that according to the written rules many Pilots are shirking their responsibility to clean and leaving their share for only a minority of employees and all the FAs to do..
So really what you should be doing is encouraging the pilots to not clean. After all, based on what you said it will help you get paid cleaners.
Again I ask though. Why are you the only employee group that needs help doing their job?
It’s all BS. It doesn’t speed up turn times 1 minute. It sole purpose is to make the FAs happy.
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01-26-2019 | 11:17 AM
#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 199
Likes: 0
So really what you should be doing is encouraging the pilots to not clean. After all, based on what you said it will help you get paid cleaners.
Again I ask though. Why are you the only employee group that needs help doing their job?
It’s all BS. It doesn’t speed up turn times 1 minute. It sole purpose is to make the FAs happy.
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Again I ask though. Why are you the only employee group that needs help doing their job?
It’s all BS. It doesn’t speed up turn times 1 minute. It sole purpose is to make the FAs happy.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Shatter that illusion that is trying to be painted about everyone helping.As for the second part of what you said. It is admitted on video that turn times are calculated on some routes with the expectation that non-revs are helping clean. It is also a practice that goes back to the foundation of the airline. Don't blame the FAs because its always been everyone's job, not just the FAs. So in reality when you just walk off the plane after non-reving or deadheading, its the FAs that have to pick up the slack and do YOUR job. Ironic huh?
01-26-2019 | 11:20 AM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,206
Likes: 0
Oh I'm here, but wondering if its worth it to add. But ok.
Some of you know what you are supposed to do regarding cleaning. Actually all of you do, but some of you are trying to hide behind very feeble word games hoping to use it as a defense if the hammer ever falls. Or make yourself feel better as you walk off while some other Pilots and all the FAs clean around you.
My point is simple. As of right now, everyone including deadheading pilots (surprise!), are required to help clean. The only ones that are off the hook are the working pilots. Helping clean/light cleaning has also been defined for everyone multiple times, and its not just crossing a few seat belts. Do we have to have a discussion on that too? Or where the visual instructions in that module not clear enough?
Why should FAs care? Because the company is trying to hold onto them cleaning with a deathgrip and using the theoretical help from pilots and other employees to trivialize this part of the job.
For the record, I don't believe leadership when they say they will hold pilots (or anyone) accountable for not cleaning. Its just another tactic to mollify FAs and keep them cleaning in the upcoming contract. That does not change the fact that according to the written rules many Pilots are shirking their responsibility to clean and leaving their share for only a minority of employees and all the FAs to do.
Does all that make you mad? Good. Get mad, stay mad and help convince B6 to join the 21st century and hire cleaners.
I'm a team player and have my crew's back, all of them. But don't pretend any sort of righteousness as you stroll off the plane. Everyone knows what's what. People who play these word games are playing into the hands of the company and causing this division.
If all of you listened to Queue from jump, you'd of all been better off. Get the change you want written in stone so the company can no longer use it as a weapon against you and other work groups.
Some of you know what you are supposed to do regarding cleaning. Actually all of you do, but some of you are trying to hide behind very feeble word games hoping to use it as a defense if the hammer ever falls. Or make yourself feel better as you walk off while some other Pilots and all the FAs clean around you.
My point is simple. As of right now, everyone including deadheading pilots (surprise!), are required to help clean. The only ones that are off the hook are the working pilots. Helping clean/light cleaning has also been defined for everyone multiple times, and its not just crossing a few seat belts. Do we have to have a discussion on that too? Or where the visual instructions in that module not clear enough?
Why should FAs care? Because the company is trying to hold onto them cleaning with a deathgrip and using the theoretical help from pilots and other employees to trivialize this part of the job.
For the record, I don't believe leadership when they say they will hold pilots (or anyone) accountable for not cleaning. Its just another tactic to mollify FAs and keep them cleaning in the upcoming contract. That does not change the fact that according to the written rules many Pilots are shirking their responsibility to clean and leaving their share for only a minority of employees and all the FAs to do.
Does all that make you mad? Good. Get mad, stay mad and help convince B6 to join the 21st century and hire cleaners.
I'm a team player and have my crew's back, all of them. But don't pretend any sort of righteousness as you stroll off the plane. Everyone knows what's what. People who play these word games are playing into the hands of the company and causing this division.
If all of you listened to Queue from jump, you'd of all been better off. Get the change you want written in stone so the company can no longer use it as a weapon against you and other work groups.
01-26-2019 | 11:21 AM
#84
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,206
Likes: 0
Bingo. I expected responses like what hilltop said above. Thats the attitude we are looking for and will help foster the change we need. Shatter that illusion that is trying to be painted about everyone helping.
As for the second part of what you said. It is admitted on video that turn times are calculated on some routes with the expectation that non-revs are helping clean. It is also a practice that goes back to the foundation of the airline. Don't blame the FAs because its always been everyone's job, not just the FAs. So in reality when you just walk off the plane after non-reving or deadheading, its the FAs that have to pick up the slack and do YOUR job. Ironic huh?
Shatter that illusion that is trying to be painted about everyone helping.As for the second part of what you said. It is admitted on video that turn times are calculated on some routes with the expectation that non-revs are helping clean. It is also a practice that goes back to the foundation of the airline. Don't blame the FAs because its always been everyone's job, not just the FAs. So in reality when you just walk off the plane after non-reving or deadheading, its the FAs that have to pick up the slack and do YOUR job. Ironic huh?
01-26-2019 | 11:52 AM
#85
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,700
Likes: 48
JB and commuters
Bingo. I expected responses like what hilltop said above. Thats the attitude we are looking for and will help foster the change we need. Shatter that illusion that is trying to be painted about everyone helping.
As for the second part of what you said. It is admitted on video that turn times are calculated on some routes with the expectation that non-revs are helping clean. It is also a practice that goes back to the foundation of the airline. Don't blame the FAs because its always been everyone's job, not just the FAs. So in reality when you just walk off the plane after non-reving or deadheading, its the FAs that have to pick up the slack and do YOUR job. Ironic huh?
Shatter that illusion that is trying to be painted about everyone helping.As for the second part of what you said. It is admitted on video that turn times are calculated on some routes with the expectation that non-revs are helping clean. It is also a practice that goes back to the foundation of the airline. Don't blame the FAs because its always been everyone's job, not just the FAs. So in reality when you just walk off the plane after non-reving or deadheading, its the FAs that have to pick up the slack and do YOUR job. Ironic huh?
Again it’s not our job!
Any labor lawyer will tell you the company CANT NOT compel you to clean when off duty. If they try to enforce it off duty they will be sued and they know it. If they tie it to non rev benefits then it become compensation and must be taxed. Another reason they will never enforce it.
FAs shouldn’t be cleaning when non reving either!!
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01-26-2019 | 11:55 AM
#86
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 199
Likes: 0
Naturally half the pilots will just say time is not permitting, bye! But never the less, the expectation is there.
What does the FOM say that contradicts this? Because the FAQ makes a clear distinction between working pilots and deadheaders.
01-26-2019 | 11:59 AM
#87
Banned
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,473
Likes: 0
That contradicts the blue turn FAQ from the June 7th 2016 field notes. One of the questions specifically asks about Pilots and cleaning. Of course the old website has been nuked but it specifically states that "non-rev AND deadheading pilots are expected to clean, when time permits." Screenshots are available and have been plastered everywhere of this specific FAQ because of how often FAs have to get clarification about the policy since so many don't comply.
Naturally half the pilots will just say time is not permitting, bye! But never the less, the expectation is there.
What does the FOM say that contradicts this? Because the FAQ makes a clear distinction between working pilots and deadheaders.
Naturally half the pilots will just say time is not permitting, bye! But never the less, the expectation is there.
What does the FOM say that contradicts this? Because the FAQ makes a clear distinction between working pilots and deadheaders.
01-26-2019 | 12:10 PM
#88
Banned
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,445
Likes: 0
Oh I'm here, but wondering if its worth it to add. But ok.
Some of you know what you are supposed to do regarding cleaning. Actually all of you do, but some of you are trying to hide behind very feeble word games hoping to use it as a defense if the hammer ever falls. Or make yourself feel better as you walk off while some other Pilots and all the FAs clean around you.
My point is simple. As of right now, everyone including deadheading pilots (surprise!), are required to help clean. The only ones that are off the hook are the working pilots. Helping clean/light cleaning has also been defined for everyone multiple times, and its not just crossing a few seat belts. Do we have to have a discussion on that too? Or where the visual instructions in that module not clear enough?
Why should FAs care? Because the company is trying to hold onto them cleaning with a deathgrip and using the theoretical help from pilots and other employees to trivialize this part of the job.
For the record, I don't believe leadership when they say they will hold pilots (or anyone) accountable for not cleaning. Its just another tactic to mollify FAs and keep them cleaning in the upcoming contract. That does not change the fact that according to the written rules many Pilots are shirking their responsibility to clean and leaving their share for only a minority of employees and all the FAs to do.
Does all that make you mad? Good. Get mad, stay mad and help convince B6 to join the 21st century and hire cleaners.
I'm a team player and have my crew's back, all of them. But don't pretend any sort of righteousness as you stroll off the plane. Everyone knows what's what. People who play these word games are playing into the hands of the company and causing this division.
If all of you listened to Queue from jump, you'd of all been better off. Get the change you want written in stone so the company can no longer use it as a weapon against you and other work groups.
Some of you know what you are supposed to do regarding cleaning. Actually all of you do, but some of you are trying to hide behind very feeble word games hoping to use it as a defense if the hammer ever falls. Or make yourself feel better as you walk off while some other Pilots and all the FAs clean around you.
My point is simple. As of right now, everyone including deadheading pilots (surprise!), are required to help clean. The only ones that are off the hook are the working pilots. Helping clean/light cleaning has also been defined for everyone multiple times, and its not just crossing a few seat belts. Do we have to have a discussion on that too? Or where the visual instructions in that module not clear enough?
Why should FAs care? Because the company is trying to hold onto them cleaning with a deathgrip and using the theoretical help from pilots and other employees to trivialize this part of the job.
For the record, I don't believe leadership when they say they will hold pilots (or anyone) accountable for not cleaning. Its just another tactic to mollify FAs and keep them cleaning in the upcoming contract. That does not change the fact that according to the written rules many Pilots are shirking their responsibility to clean and leaving their share for only a minority of employees and all the FAs to do.
Does all that make you mad? Good. Get mad, stay mad and help convince B6 to join the 21st century and hire cleaners.
I'm a team player and have my crew's back, all of them. But don't pretend any sort of righteousness as you stroll off the plane. Everyone knows what's what. People who play these word games are playing into the hands of the company and causing this division.
If all of you listened to Queue from jump, you'd of all been better off. Get the change you want written in stone so the company can no longer use it as a weapon against you and other work groups.
2. Commuting pilots and FAs MUST duty on with CS if they perform duty for the air carrier. That means YOU bluetruth.
Would I advise doing it as an FA? No. Y'all don't have the financial resources nor the unity to fight the inevitable illegal termination this would bring down. You COULD just do the seat belts. Remember, if you get stabbed with an HIV positive needle while on duty the company is liable. If you do it in your "free time" while commuting it's on you.
For my part I would just remind you that us not cleaning has nothing to do with our view of the FAs or "just being jerks". It has everything to do with not giving away labor for free, with potential for injury and no support from Jetblue.
Also Joanna wants it so it feels really good not to do it.
01-26-2019 | 12:14 PM
#89
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,206
Likes: 0
That contradicts the blue turn FAQ from the June 7th 2016 field notes. One of the questions specifically asks about Pilots and cleaning. Of course the old website has been nuked but it specifically states that "non-rev AND deadheading pilots are expected to clean, when time permits." Screenshots are available and have been plastered everywhere of this specific FAQ because of how often FAs have to get clarification about the policy since so many don't comply.
Naturally half the pilots will just say time is not permitting, bye! But never the less, the expectation is there.
What does the FOM say that contradicts this? Because the FAQ makes a clear distinction between working pilots and deadheaders.
Naturally half the pilots will just say time is not permitting, bye! But never the less, the expectation is there.
What does the FOM say that contradicts this? Because the FAQ makes a clear distinction between working pilots and deadheaders.
I decided to not directly quote the FOM on a public site. You can search the FOM on comply if you need the reference.
Last edited by Southerner; 01-26-2019 at 12:42 PM.
01-26-2019 | 12:52 PM
#90
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 199
Likes: 0
Regarding DHD, there is some very contradictory published information out there and I smell a revision, somewhere, in the future.
The company can't tell FAs that DHDs must clean and tell Pilots the opposite. You are either right, or they used the wrong word when they typed Duty in that last sentence. Perhaps they really meant operating pilots.
Maybe this would be a good question for the next episode of Ask Johanna? Is it only operating pilots that are exempt from the expectation to clean, because this is what Inflight is being told and what was published in the field notes, and elsewhere.
