JB and commuters
01-25-2019 | 02:38 PM
#71
PermaFO
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
From: May I swing the gear Von Admiral?
01-25-2019 | 04:17 PM
#72
Banned
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,473
Likes: 0
Cptcoolhand is playing games with words.
From the FAM:
So according to you the FAs don't really have to clean either since they did not use the word MUST?
Its really simple. If you don't want to clean at anytime or anyplace, than negotiated it into the next contract. If you just walk off the plane after doing one row or nothing at all, you deserve to be (and I quote Johanna) reported straight to her. Argue definitions with her and see where that gets you. She will clue you into what she means by light cleaning too. No one is finished until we all are finished, so do your duty and don't leave your fellow employees with your share of it.
Having said that, the company needs to hire cleaners once and for all and end this for everyone.
From the FAM:
So according to you the FAs don't really have to clean either since they did not use the word MUST?
Its really simple. If you don't want to clean at anytime or anyplace, than negotiated it into the next contract. If you just walk off the plane after doing one row or nothing at all, you deserve to be (and I quote Johanna) reported straight to her. Argue definitions with her and see where that gets you. She will clue you into what she means by light cleaning too. No one is finished until we all are finished, so do your duty and don't leave your fellow employees with your share of it.
Having said that, the company needs to hire cleaners once and for all and end this for everyone.
01-25-2019 | 04:53 PM
#73
Banned
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,122
Likes: 0
We have a lot of FA’s in training to be pilots, they can’t believe we make more money than them, that’s what I expect bluetruth is. When they get there they won’t help clean either and I will support them. Until then enjoy the safe ride that we provide you, be respectful and mind your own business.
01-25-2019 | 06:45 PM
#74
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 377
Likes: 0
Oh it's a flight attendant.
Well. They can be forgiven for not knowing that since they're union now, they are supposed go to their professional standards committee with their issues instead of "telling mom" (Giggity). When we work out disagreements without involving HR everybody wins.
And yes it is in their job description that they're supposed to clean. I don't like it any more than anyone else, but that's their job. It isn't pilots' or nonrevs' jobs to clean.
The fact we are even discussing this is embarrassing.
Also, when I saw the thread title "JB and commuters" I assumed it was lumping JB in with commuter airlines which isn't that far off base.
Well. They can be forgiven for not knowing that since they're union now, they are supposed go to their professional standards committee with their issues instead of "telling mom" (Giggity). When we work out disagreements without involving HR everybody wins.
And yes it is in their job description that they're supposed to clean. I don't like it any more than anyone else, but that's their job. It isn't pilots' or nonrevs' jobs to clean.
The fact we are even discussing this is embarrassing.
Also, when I saw the thread title "JB and commuters" I assumed it was lumping JB in with commuter airlines which isn't that far off base.
01-25-2019 | 07:23 PM
#75
Banned
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,132
Likes: 0
Just so its CLEAR, again for the xxxx time...
FOM 10.3.18
Page 10-39
Captains
Aircraft Cleaning: Captains are not expected to assist in light cleaning of aircraft as a core function of their duties.
FOM 10.3.19
Page 10-41
First Officers
Aircraft Cleaning: First Officers are not expected to assist in light cleaning of aircraft as a core function of their duties.
Pass riding guide
Page 24
Cleaning Expectations (thats a key word)
All Pass Riding Crewmembers whether traveling for leisure, duty(in direct contradiction to the FOM) or commuting to work are expected to assist with cleaning the aircraft to speed the turn process.... Do not delay or impede the deplaning of customers when cleaning... Crewmembers failing to assist our inflight crew may be subject to suspension or loss of pass riding privileges, for up to one year.
looking for the must? I can't find it. We also have a definition of how much is required and it's De-minimis, so while up for interpretation, you go ahead and clean as much as you think is required.
But congratulations, you were right about less aircraft than expected this year.
ex·pec·ta·tion
noun
a strong belief that something will happen or be the case in the future.
"reality had not lived up to expectations"
a belief that someone will or should achieve something.
Seems like we tend not to meet expectations in many aspects around here.
this
is
not
that
hard
FOM 10.3.18
Page 10-39
Captains
Aircraft Cleaning: Captains are not expected to assist in light cleaning of aircraft as a core function of their duties.
FOM 10.3.19
Page 10-41
First Officers
Aircraft Cleaning: First Officers are not expected to assist in light cleaning of aircraft as a core function of their duties.
Pass riding guide
Page 24
Cleaning Expectations (thats a key word)
All Pass Riding Crewmembers whether traveling for leisure, duty(in direct contradiction to the FOM) or commuting to work are expected to assist with cleaning the aircraft to speed the turn process.... Do not delay or impede the deplaning of customers when cleaning... Crewmembers failing to assist our inflight crew may be subject to suspension or loss of pass riding privileges, for up to one year.
looking for the must? I can't find it. We also have a definition of how much is required and it's De-minimis, so while up for interpretation, you go ahead and clean as much as you think is required.
But congratulations, you were right about less aircraft than expected this year.
ex·pec·ta·tion
noun
a strong belief that something will happen or be the case in the future.
"reality had not lived up to expectations"
a belief that someone will or should achieve something.
Seems like we tend not to meet expectations in many aspects around here.
this
is
not
that
hard
01-26-2019 | 01:50 AM
#76
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,700
Likes: 48
JB and commuters
For some reason the FA’s are the only ones in the entire company that need help doing THEIR JOB.
Ask them why they don’t take the trash bags off the plane. It would help turn times. Throw bags? Help load the box for me? Biohazard clean up?
“It isn’t my job” will be the first words out of their mouth.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Ask them why they don’t take the trash bags off the plane. It would help turn times. Throw bags? Help load the box for me? Biohazard clean up?
“It isn’t my job” will be the first words out of their mouth.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
01-26-2019 | 04:36 AM
#77
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,236
Likes: 0
No exceptions!!!! If deadheading, you are on a bought seat. It is not and should not be used for anyone but you. I don't care what the situation is. Decrease your situational awareness and take your seat. Getting people on is not your problem while deadheading. More often than not, a legit jumpseating pilot gets left behind due to deadheaders not using their company paid for seat.
At my airline, no one jumpseats while deadheading. It's a big no-no.
At my airline, no one jumpseats while deadheading. It's a big no-no.
01-26-2019 | 06:39 AM
#78
Banned
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,445
Likes: 0
Cptcoolhand is playing games with words.
From the FAM:
So according to you the FAs don't really have to clean either since they did not use the word MUST?
Its really simple. If you don't want to clean at anytime or anyplace, than negotiated it into the next contract. If you just walk off the plane after doing one row or nothing at all, you deserve to be (and I quote Johanna) reported straight to her. Argue definitions with her and see where that gets you. She will clue you into what she means by light cleaning too. No one is finished until we all are finished, so do your duty and don't leave your fellow employees with your share of it.
Having said that, the company needs to hire cleaners once and for all and end this for everyone.
From the FAM:
So according to you the FAs don't really have to clean either since they did not use the word MUST?
Its really simple. If you don't want to clean at anytime or anyplace, than negotiated it into the next contract. If you just walk off the plane after doing one row or nothing at all, you deserve to be (and I quote Johanna) reported straight to her. Argue definitions with her and see where that gets you. She will clue you into what she means by light cleaning too. No one is finished until we all are finished, so do your duty and don't leave your fellow employees with your share of it.
Having said that, the company needs to hire cleaners once and for all and end this for everyone.
Cleaning on a commute REQUIRES you to call crew services and duty on. It's the law.
Also, I will never clean. Never ever never.
If they start firing people for not cleaning:
Step 1. Duty on after. Even on a day off as it will impact rest legalities.
Step 2. On do the lap belts. I will not stick my hands into a mystery bag and risk getting stabbed.
Also, the customers posting pictures of dirty diapers and needles at their seat on social media and the national news may finally get us professional cleaners.
01-26-2019 | 07:33 AM
#79
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 199
Likes: 0
Oh I'm here, but wondering if its worth it to add. But ok.
Some of you know what you are supposed to do regarding cleaning. Actually all of you do, but some of you are trying to hide behind very feeble word games hoping to use it as a defense if the hammer ever falls. Or make yourself feel better as you walk off while some other Pilots and all the FAs clean around you.
My point is simple. As of right now, everyone including deadheading pilots (surprise!), are required to help clean. The only ones that are off the hook are the working pilots. Helping clean/light cleaning has also been defined for everyone multiple times, and its not just crossing a few seat belts. Do we have to have a discussion on that too? Or where the visual instructions in that module not clear enough?
Why should FAs care? Because the company is trying to hold onto them cleaning with a deathgrip and using the theoretical help from pilots and other employees to trivialize this part of the job.
For the record, I don't believe leadership when they say they will hold pilots (or anyone) accountable for not cleaning. Its just another tactic to mollify FAs and keep them cleaning in the upcoming contract. That does not change the fact that according to the written rules many Pilots are shirking their responsibility to clean and leaving their share for only a minority of employees and all the FAs to do.
Does all that make you mad? Good. Get mad, stay mad and help convince B6 to join the 21st century and hire cleaners.
I'm a team player and have my crew's back, all of them. But don't pretend any sort of righteousness as you stroll off the plane. Everyone knows what's what. People who play these word games are playing into the hands of the company and causing this division.
If all of you listened to Queue from jump, you'd of all been better off. Get the change you want written in stone so the company can no longer use it as a weapon against you and other work groups.
Some of you know what you are supposed to do regarding cleaning. Actually all of you do, but some of you are trying to hide behind very feeble word games hoping to use it as a defense if the hammer ever falls. Or make yourself feel better as you walk off while some other Pilots and all the FAs clean around you.
My point is simple. As of right now, everyone including deadheading pilots (surprise!), are required to help clean. The only ones that are off the hook are the working pilots. Helping clean/light cleaning has also been defined for everyone multiple times, and its not just crossing a few seat belts. Do we have to have a discussion on that too? Or where the visual instructions in that module not clear enough?
Why should FAs care? Because the company is trying to hold onto them cleaning with a deathgrip and using the theoretical help from pilots and other employees to trivialize this part of the job.
For the record, I don't believe leadership when they say they will hold pilots (or anyone) accountable for not cleaning. Its just another tactic to mollify FAs and keep them cleaning in the upcoming contract. That does not change the fact that according to the written rules many Pilots are shirking their responsibility to clean and leaving their share for only a minority of employees and all the FAs to do.
Does all that make you mad? Good. Get mad, stay mad and help convince B6 to join the 21st century and hire cleaners.
I'm a team player and have my crew's back, all of them. But don't pretend any sort of righteousness as you stroll off the plane. Everyone knows what's what. People who play these word games are playing into the hands of the company and causing this division.
If all of you listened to Queue from jump, you'd of all been better off. Get the change you want written in stone so the company can no longer use it as a weapon against you and other work groups.
01-26-2019 | 09:06 AM
#80
Banned
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,473
Likes: 0
Oh I'm here, but wondering if its worth it to add. But ok.
Some of you know what you are supposed to do regarding cleaning. Actually all of you do, but some of you are trying to hide behind very feeble word games hoping to use it as a defense if the hammer ever falls. Or make yourself feel better as you walk off while some other Pilots and all the FAs clean around you.
My point is simple. As of right now, everyone including deadheading pilots (surprise!), are required to help clean. The only ones that are off the hook are the working pilots. Helping clean/light cleaning has also been defined for everyone multiple times, and its not just crossing a few seat belts. Do we have to have a discussion on that too? Or where the visual instructions in that module not clear enough?
Why should FAs care? Because the company is trying to hold onto them cleaning with a deathgrip and using the theoretical help from pilots and other employees to trivialize this part of the job.
For the record, I don't believe leadership when they say they will hold pilots (or anyone) accountable for not cleaning. Its just another tactic to mollify FAs and keep them cleaning in the upcoming contract. That does not change the fact that according to the written rules many Pilots are shirking their responsibility to clean and leaving their share for only a minority of employees and all the FAs to do.
Does all that make you mad? Good. Get mad, stay mad and help convince B6 to join the 21st century and hire cleaners.
I'm a team player and have my crew's back, all of them. But don't pretend any sort of righteousness as you stroll off the plane. Everyone knows what's what. People who play these word games are playing into the hands of the company and causing this division.
If all of you listened to Queue from jump, you'd of all been better off. Get the change you want written in stone so the company can no longer use it as a weapon against you and other work groups.
Some of you know what you are supposed to do regarding cleaning. Actually all of you do, but some of you are trying to hide behind very feeble word games hoping to use it as a defense if the hammer ever falls. Or make yourself feel better as you walk off while some other Pilots and all the FAs clean around you.
My point is simple. As of right now, everyone including deadheading pilots (surprise!), are required to help clean. The only ones that are off the hook are the working pilots. Helping clean/light cleaning has also been defined for everyone multiple times, and its not just crossing a few seat belts. Do we have to have a discussion on that too? Or where the visual instructions in that module not clear enough?
Why should FAs care? Because the company is trying to hold onto them cleaning with a deathgrip and using the theoretical help from pilots and other employees to trivialize this part of the job.
For the record, I don't believe leadership when they say they will hold pilots (or anyone) accountable for not cleaning. Its just another tactic to mollify FAs and keep them cleaning in the upcoming contract. That does not change the fact that according to the written rules many Pilots are shirking their responsibility to clean and leaving their share for only a minority of employees and all the FAs to do.
Does all that make you mad? Good. Get mad, stay mad and help convince B6 to join the 21st century and hire cleaners.
I'm a team player and have my crew's back, all of them. But don't pretend any sort of righteousness as you stroll off the plane. Everyone knows what's what. People who play these word games are playing into the hands of the company and causing this division.
If all of you listened to Queue from jump, you'd of all been better off. Get the change you want written in stone so the company can no longer use it as a weapon against you and other work groups.
