SWA or JB?
04-14-2019, 06:10 AM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Posts: 917
SWA runs very efficiently, their ramps/catering/MX are not outsourced to business partners like JB. They all work together and get rewarded with profit sharing. There is a reason they can do 25 min. tuns. He truly enjoys working with the pilots and FAs. He said he couldn't remember the last time he had a deferred APU or major MEL. They have solid contractual Hotel standards (and discounts) that far outweigh the BlewJet Hotel guidelines in our CBA. His overall QOL and scheduling flexibility is better than mine. It probably didn't help that I had just finished a 4 day trip, where 3 days included a deferred APU, one aircraft with 6 MELs and every flight was delayed, due to MX, catering, aircraft swap, no gate availability, etc.
Oh, and in regards to your comment about rushing. I fly with A LOT of guys here that rush all the time, trying to get on-time, releasing the break early, complaining the ramp guys are not moving fast enough, etc., the same guys that miss stuff and make mistakes... Why?? Are we getting on-time bonuses that I don't know of? No, it is management that gets them, and it is based on A-14. The same management that slashed health care, benefits and screwed us on profit sharing. But yet, we still have too many folks here bending over backwards to make the operation work and cleaning up managements mess and incompetence. This is why we at JB will always be at the bottom and will never get industry average or leading.
Again, if I had the choice between JB and SWA, I would pick SWA!
04-14-2019, 06:32 AM
#52
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,122
There are Pros and Cons to each airline (SWA vs JB). I had a good conversation with a friend last month who is at Southwest, he really enjoys working there and everything he told me was the exact opposite at Jetblue, in terms of operations, leadership, maintenance, and work rules and QOL. The only real "negatives" he mentioned were how uncomfortable the 737 is on transcons and the AM/PM scheduling system and a few minor contractual issues (no parking reimbursement, etc.), besides that, everything else sounded 1000% better than JetBlue.
SWA runs very efficiently, their ramps/catering/MX are not outsourced to business partners like JB. They all work together and get rewarded with profit sharing. There is a reason they can do 25 min. tuns. He truly enjoys working with the pilots and FAs. He said he couldn't remember the last time he had a deferred APU or major MEL. They have solid contractual Hotel standards (and discounts) that far outweigh the BlewJet Hotel guidelines in our CBA. His overall QOL and scheduling flexibility is better than mine. It probably didn't help that I had just finished a 4 day trip, where 3 days included a deferred APU, one aircraft with 6 MELs and every flight was delayed, due to MX, catering, aircraft swap, no gate availability, etc.
Oh, and in regards to your comment about rushing. I fly with A LOT of guys here that rush all the time, trying to get on-time, releasing the break early, complaining the ramp guys are not moving fast enough, etc., the same guys that miss stuff and make mistakes... Why?? Are we getting on-time bonuses that I don't know of? No, it is management that gets them, and it is based on A-14. The same management that slashed health care, benefits and screwed us on profit sharing. But yet, we still have too many folks here bending over backwards to make the operation work and cleaning up managements mess and incompetence. This is why we at JB will always be at the bottom and will never get industry average or leading.
Again, if I had the choice between JB and SWA, I would pick SWA!
SWA runs very efficiently, their ramps/catering/MX are not outsourced to business partners like JB. They all work together and get rewarded with profit sharing. There is a reason they can do 25 min. tuns. He truly enjoys working with the pilots and FAs. He said he couldn't remember the last time he had a deferred APU or major MEL. They have solid contractual Hotel standards (and discounts) that far outweigh the BlewJet Hotel guidelines in our CBA. His overall QOL and scheduling flexibility is better than mine. It probably didn't help that I had just finished a 4 day trip, where 3 days included a deferred APU, one aircraft with 6 MELs and every flight was delayed, due to MX, catering, aircraft swap, no gate availability, etc.
Oh, and in regards to your comment about rushing. I fly with A LOT of guys here that rush all the time, trying to get on-time, releasing the break early, complaining the ramp guys are not moving fast enough, etc., the same guys that miss stuff and make mistakes... Why?? Are we getting on-time bonuses that I don't know of? No, it is management that gets them, and it is based on A-14. The same management that slashed health care, benefits and screwed us on profit sharing. But yet, we still have too many folks here bending over backwards to make the operation work and cleaning up managements mess and incompetence. This is why we at JB will always be at the bottom and will never get industry average or leading.
Again, if I had the choice between JB and SWA, I would pick SWA!
04-14-2019, 07:28 AM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 588
JB and SWA are both good places to be. I don’t want the OP to form an opinion based on 6 legs a day though because they’re not common, and you could always trade out. I’ve been at SWA almost 2 yrs, and I’ve never done 6 legs. I’ve never done 5. I usually trade out of trips that have 4 unless it pays well. My last trip was 1 leg the first day, 2 the second and 3 the third with an 18hr beach overnight. It paid 19.5 per the min rigs. The trip before that was glorious and way above my seniority lol, but I picked it up from someone. It was 2 legs a day for 3 days that paid 28.5 (not common, but they do exist). Most trips in my base seem to average about 3 legs/day. I only do 3 day trips so 3on/4off every month. I don’t ever feel rushed. Sometimes I feel efficient because I never sit around unless I’m home or in a hotel, but not rushed.
04-14-2019, 07:47 AM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 588
I’m not sure how you get through 6 legs without rushing. JB has a max of 4 in their CBA. Also, I always see them doing visual approaches in mountainous areas and taxiing like the brakes don’t work. No disrespect to SWA pilots it’s just not for me. I take an ILS on CAVU days and taxi at 11 kts.
Regarding the vis approaches... we still tune and follow the ILS or RNAV even if accepting a visual. SWA actually has a stricter stabilized approach policy than any of the places (121) I’ve worked before. FDAP is alive and well too, so it would rat out any unstabilized junk.
04-14-2019, 08:57 AM
#56
Covfefe
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,001
04-14-2019, 09:06 AM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Position: Pressing On
Posts: 524
I am not a big fan of SWA, but it is a major, and all that comes with that category. And for a lot of people who like to work, need huge schedule flexibility, and do not have any desire to do Widebody flying, it is a pretty good fit.
JB, while not a bad job, is not in SWA’s class. So unless you are independently wealthy and live in a JB only base, there isn’t a comparison.
JB, while not a bad job, is not in SWA’s class. So unless you are independently wealthy and live in a JB only base, there isn’t a comparison.
04-14-2019, 09:11 AM
#58
SDQ Base Chief
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: 320 CA
Posts: 5,633
Break down of a Southwest Airlines turn.
On descent, spend 5 minutes reviewing the next legs release and weather.
Block in...push three buttons. Go find and ops agent and look for jumpseaters, then wander around the terminal for 10 minutes.
Check the gate area for pre-boards that might need assistance.
Come back to the airplane, do 5 more minutes of button pushing.
Spend 15 minutes talking to the A and saying hello to boarding passengers.
Start APU and turn off the PCA air.
Wander back up to the podium and talk to the ops agent again for 10 minutes.
Numbers come...push a couple more buttons. Some checklist stuff. Call for push.
The stress of being rushed is really getting to me...
On descent, spend 5 minutes reviewing the next legs release and weather.
Block in...push three buttons. Go find and ops agent and look for jumpseaters, then wander around the terminal for 10 minutes.
Check the gate area for pre-boards that might need assistance.
Come back to the airplane, do 5 more minutes of button pushing.
Spend 15 minutes talking to the A and saying hello to boarding passengers.
Start APU and turn off the PCA air.
Wander back up to the podium and talk to the ops agent again for 10 minutes.
Numbers come...push a couple more buttons. Some checklist stuff. Call for push.
The stress of being rushed is really getting to me...
But damn, that 73 is an ancient cockpit. You flip more switches to turn on engine A/I than I flip in a whole flight.
04-14-2019, 09:15 AM
#59
Covfefe
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,001
I am not a big fan of SWA, but it is a major, and all that comes with that category. And for a lot of people who like to work, need huge schedule flexibility, and do not have any desire to do Widebody flying, it is a pretty good fit.
JB, while not a bad job, is not in SWA’s class. So unless you are independently wealthy and live in a JB only base, there isn’t a comparison.
JB, while not a bad job, is not in SWA’s class. So unless you are independently wealthy and live in a JB only base, there isn’t a comparison.
And to say you need to be independently wealthy at JB but not SWA is laughable. Do you know the pay difference between the two airlines?
Regarding bases, SWA has a lot more options and some more desirable bases. That’s a factor with any airline.
Edit: I love it. Even more legacy guys coming to the JB forum to crap on JB.
04-14-2019, 09:37 AM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
Posts: 2,919
There are Pros and Cons to each airline (SWA vs JB). I had a good conversation with a friend last month who is at Southwest, he really enjoys working there and everything he told me was the exact opposite at Jetblue, in terms of operations, leadership, maintenance, and work rules and QOL. The only real "negatives" he mentioned were how uncomfortable the 737 is on transcons and the AM/PM scheduling system and a few minor contractual issues (no parking reimbursement, etc.), besides that, everything else sounded 1000% better than JetBlue.
SWA runs very efficiently, their ramps/catering/MX are not outsourced to business partners like JB. They all work together and get rewarded with profit sharing. There is a reason they can do 25 min. tuns. He truly enjoys working with the pilots and FAs. He said he couldn't remember the last time he had a deferred APU or major MEL. They have solid contractual Hotel standards (and discounts) that far outweigh the BlewJet Hotel guidelines in our CBA. His overall QOL and scheduling flexibility is better than mine. It probably didn't help that I had just finished a 4 day trip, where 3 days included a deferred APU, one aircraft with 6 MELs and every flight was delayed, due to MX, catering, aircraft swap, no gate availability, etc.
Oh, and in regards to your comment about rushing. I fly with A LOT of guys here that rush all the time, trying to get on-time, releasing the break early, complaining the ramp guys are not moving fast enough, etc., the same guys that miss stuff and make mistakes... Why?? Are we getting on-time bonuses that I don't know of? No, it is management that gets them, and it is based on A-14. The same management that slashed health care, benefits and screwed us on profit sharing. But yet, we still have too many folks here bending over backwards to make the operation work and cleaning up managements mess and incompetence. This is why we at JB will always be at the bottom and will never get industry average or leading.
Again, if I had the choice between JB and SWA, I would pick SWA!
SWA runs very efficiently, their ramps/catering/MX are not outsourced to business partners like JB. They all work together and get rewarded with profit sharing. There is a reason they can do 25 min. tuns. He truly enjoys working with the pilots and FAs. He said he couldn't remember the last time he had a deferred APU or major MEL. They have solid contractual Hotel standards (and discounts) that far outweigh the BlewJet Hotel guidelines in our CBA. His overall QOL and scheduling flexibility is better than mine. It probably didn't help that I had just finished a 4 day trip, where 3 days included a deferred APU, one aircraft with 6 MELs and every flight was delayed, due to MX, catering, aircraft swap, no gate availability, etc.
Oh, and in regards to your comment about rushing. I fly with A LOT of guys here that rush all the time, trying to get on-time, releasing the break early, complaining the ramp guys are not moving fast enough, etc., the same guys that miss stuff and make mistakes... Why?? Are we getting on-time bonuses that I don't know of? No, it is management that gets them, and it is based on A-14. The same management that slashed health care, benefits and screwed us on profit sharing. But yet, we still have too many folks here bending over backwards to make the operation work and cleaning up managements mess and incompetence. This is why we at JB will always be at the bottom and will never get industry average or leading.
Again, if I had the choice between JB and SWA, I would pick SWA!
This was on the other SWA vs JB thread I hope zap does not mind. Just an interesting take since he worked here.
I left jetBlue after six months for SWA because the commute was untenable and I couldn’t move to New York or Boston, plus my friends at SWA bragged about their unparalleled schedule flexibility, productivity, and more days off.
At the time, pay was much higher at SWA too. Now, the pay is pretty close to the same and JetBlue’s retirement either is already or soon will be 1% higher than SWA. My class at JetBlue upgraded a year ago, while barring a recession or merger it will be another 3-5 years before an upgrade is possible at SWA.
Since they upgraded (most to the 190 but one or two to the Bus) their pay has jumped ahead of mine. I can come close to matching their 190 Captain pay but i have to bust my rear to do it. They pay for ancillaries such as uniforms, parking, etc. but SWA’s vacation overlap blows JetBlue’s vacation out of the water as far as time off. I think they can still sell back PTO at time and a half though... not sure. JetBlue offers commutable lines (built by PBS) where as most lines at SWA will require a commute on one end or the other.
JetBlue wasn’t afraid to spend money on the airplanes so things like window shades and printers remain installed on the airplanes where as at SWA they are removed (printers remain on the ETOPS airplanes). The SWA product for passengers is not even in the same league as JetBlue. Their Mint class product is truly industry leading. Their brand is aspirational so it’s common to see celebrities Tweet about flying on them. Their WiFi is best in class. Most legroom, TVs, snack-bars on the 321 between Mint and coach etc..
All in all there are pros and cons to both carriers, so it really comes down to where you want to live. With 11 domiciles there is likely a SWA domicile somewhere that either you want to live at or is an easy commute for you. JetBlue’s aggressive expansion might result in a faster upgrade and therefore more money in the short term. Any forecast over 5 years in this business requires a crystal ball so no point in speculating beyond that.
Needless to say, I agree with Whack. Delta, American, United and the freighters, then SWA, JetBlue, and finally the ultra LCCs. Good luck with your decision.
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At the time, pay was much higher at SWA too. Now, the pay is pretty close to the same and JetBlue’s retirement either is already or soon will be 1% higher than SWA. My class at JetBlue upgraded a year ago, while barring a recession or merger it will be another 3-5 years before an upgrade is possible at SWA.
Since they upgraded (most to the 190 but one or two to the Bus) their pay has jumped ahead of mine. I can come close to matching their 190 Captain pay but i have to bust my rear to do it. They pay for ancillaries such as uniforms, parking, etc. but SWA’s vacation overlap blows JetBlue’s vacation out of the water as far as time off. I think they can still sell back PTO at time and a half though... not sure. JetBlue offers commutable lines (built by PBS) where as most lines at SWA will require a commute on one end or the other.
JetBlue wasn’t afraid to spend money on the airplanes so things like window shades and printers remain installed on the airplanes where as at SWA they are removed (printers remain on the ETOPS airplanes). The SWA product for passengers is not even in the same league as JetBlue. Their Mint class product is truly industry leading. Their brand is aspirational so it’s common to see celebrities Tweet about flying on them. Their WiFi is best in class. Most legroom, TVs, snack-bars on the 321 between Mint and coach etc..
All in all there are pros and cons to both carriers, so it really comes down to where you want to live. With 11 domiciles there is likely a SWA domicile somewhere that either you want to live at or is an easy commute for you. JetBlue’s aggressive expansion might result in a faster upgrade and therefore more money in the short term. Any forecast over 5 years in this business requires a crystal ball so no point in speculating beyond that.
Needless to say, I agree with Whack. Delta, American, United and the freighters, then SWA, JetBlue, and finally the ultra LCCs. Good luck with your decision.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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