Initial A220 bid
 

Just curious to know how senior the first system bid will go for A220 in August. Let’s assume roughly 50-60 crews on first bid.
Any 320 Pilots bidding over for better schedule? If so what’s your DOH year? Just curious to know. I think first bid will go
somewhat junior, around 8-12 year for Captain. Thoughts? We are scheduled to receive around 6 planes first 2 years.

I think it's anyone's guess. We don't know anything about it yet.

I've flown with guys who say they want to be the very first ones on the airplane because they think that will lead to a lot of trips being bought off while people behind them start training. Others say they won't touch it with a 50' pole until there's a published schedule/destinations and all the kinks are worked out.

I'm in the latter. I think I'd like to fly it but I also don't want to be the guinea pig. With my luck if I went first, they'd announce that they're only doing red eye flying with it for the first couple years.

The company should provide more information prior to posting a bid.

But...

First bid will likely go more junior than the next. An 11 year 320 captain who holds a line but not weekends off won’t want to risk losing what they have. If 75% of the other left seat bids are senior to them, they’ll find themselves back on reserve for a year or more. People with nothing to lose will bid it, then senior people will have an idea where they would slot in QOL wise. I’m a junior 320 captain and have no intention of bidding it. Unknown schedules, pay cut, and no idea where I’d falls seniority wise.

The people who will eventually want it is the ~1400 seniority number 48 year olds. They’ve been bus captains for 8-10 years and hold mediocre lines that are only improved with flica. They don’t hold holidays off in a bid and not every weekend either. Summer vacation is likely a no as well. Because of our age etc, this group will have the exact same bid power for the next 10+ years. I think this is the group that ultimately makes the jump to be a 35% bidder vs a 55%.

With the European flying coming out and the 220 this August’s bid should really shake things up. Hopefully in a good way for us junior captains.

What are the pay rates going to be on it? Bus or E-190/195. The JBA profile on here hasn’t been updated yet to reflect A220 rates.

Top rates (5/1/2020) are 258/237 for the 300/100. As of now we only have 300s on order but I wouldn’t be surprised to see 100s (and 500s) at some point. Up another few bucks next May.

I absolutely see 500s coming, but do not see any 100s likely.

Unless JB starts some mid-continent focus city with no gate shortages at all.

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Thanks fellas. I’m really hoping we get the A220 at SWA and was just wondering how the rates for it are stacking up at other airlines against similar fleet types.

How’s interest in bidding the A220 lately? Much interest? Obviously still some uncertainty with Covid.

There is suppose to be a supplemental bid in November apparently for the A220 for training starting after the new year. I'm sure it will come with some 190 reductions.

Correct. From what I’ve heard about our fleet plan, we’ll lose about 5 E190s by Summer 2021, while gaining the same amount of A220s. Also a reduction of some of the old A320’s. I think A220 interest will be mixed.

I can’t see a ton of bus guys going 220 right away. Pay cut, plus more regional style flying. Tough call as well, bidding new equipment while everything is closed down at ocs. It would make for a long boring 4-6 wks of training.

Some may bid it just to get BOS.

It'll be a mix, but I'm thinking will go mostly junior. You'll have some that will bid it, just because it is a new airplane, but still too many unknowns, in terms of flying and schedules. If we wouldn't have given up the IOE trips withholding, it would have been tempting to some to bid it if they are going to be senior and bid CKA trips and get a lot of trips bought off down the road.

It’s going to be another disaster. There will be possibly 70 displacements off the 190 as a result of going one for one. Of those 70, as the last bid has shown, likely half will voluntarily just bid what they want (Boston 320 etc.) It will be a huge trickle down and we will see another likely 10+ Boston 320 left seaters displaced with each bid that reduces 190 positions. This doesn’t even factor those who got displaced out of their seat and/or Boston last bid. Guessing a simple reduction of just a few planes will cost another large training event. Far more so than just the junior X amount of 190 pilots displaced. Willing to bet they are safe where they are as senior folks will use the opportunity to voluntary into a place they want without a vacancy.

I'd say that most of the interest revolves around the QOL that the plane may or may not hold. We have no idea what the schedules will be yet. The rest will be the ooooh boy a new toy interest.

I don't think the pay will be as big of a driver as was on the 190. 320 vs 220 is only a few %. Plus remember the 220 is very capable of doing long flights. I think the mix will be interesting. Now that Florida is open for business so you can get an uber to whatever your pleasure, not so bad. I'm not gonna bid it, but I'm sure theres guys that are gonna jump for one reason or another.
JMO

Respectfully, I disagree. Displacements are expensive for the company. They will reduce the number of 190 positions without a displacement. Some 190 guys will bid the 220 and some will take 320/321 vacancies opened up by those pilots bidding the 220. They will just carry a few more 190 pilots then they want rather then displacing. Why pay for displacements when guys will leave for free? In a couple years they will start making the trips unbearable to entice the stalwarts to bid off before they finally rip the Band-Aid off with a final displacement and liquidate the fleet.

That’s my tbought as well. Only way they change and displace is if hardly any captains leave.

I was there last week. Everything is open. Restaurants, bars, theme parks.

Even at the Lodge the bar, fitness center, and cafeteria (most options) all were open.

It’s business as usual down there with the exception of temperature screenings and masks.

Agreed- Was just there. No major issues, No maskholes either.

Personally for me, the inability to quickly fly back home during the 2-4 days off they give you during the long 6 week QT footprint is the issue I have. Two flights/day to BOS makes things tough. I was down in MCO for QT training during the beginning of the pandemic. Not something I’d like to do again voluntarily.

That’s good to hear at least. Makes it more bearable.

I have recurrent next month and was looking at flights. We have 3 a day between JFK and MCO. Zero to LGA. The JFK ones are either early morning, noon, or 2pm. Coming back the first flight is at 12:30, then around 2 and 7. Not exactly the most convenient.

Not even a miniscule fraction of the inconvenience commuters have been dealing with for 6+ months. You'll survive.

Totally agree with your point here. The commuting has gone from bearable to a complete disaster for a lot of us. I know I know it’s our choice but ... for someone to complain about a commute to/from training well you’ll live through it.

Apples to oranges.

I agree with the complaints about the training schedule and commuting to and from home. We have no say in our training schedule. One of the only restrictions is there must be a two day off period within a 14 day footprint. That makes it very difficult to get to and from home on days (or day in many cases) off. If you have a family, and especially if you have a wife that works and kids, it’s very hard to just be absent for the majority of a month. As a normal commuter yes your commute has gotten very difficult but you’re not flying much at all and you’re also given the option to take a VIL. To make matters worse many of these guys headed to training in the next few months are going there involuntarily.

So to be honest I feel a lot worse for them than I do you ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

EDIT: I see you quoted Tristar and not Nuball’s post. Yeah getting to and from recurrent isn’t going to get much sympathy from me either.

let us not forget what Doug Parker says about this... “commuting is a choice.” Plan accordingly

For those that can hold Long Call, it might be a smart option. I still scratch my head at why so many senior people are flying/commuting month after month. Guess they can’t be bothered with reserve 🤷‍♂️

I know some smart people who live in base, always bid reserve, and make bank picking up premium flying. Not sure that strategy is the cash cow it used to be but pretty good back in the good old days of 2019.

^ This exactly.

I’m not saying it’s the end of the world to be away from my family for six straight weeks. I’d personally would just wait a year or two when things are closer to normal with no seat caps and a more normal frequency...but that’s just me. Anyway...back to the A220 bid.

Doubtful. I don’t think there are that many people making “bank”. But if you don’t want to worry about your commute and make the same money, I’d bid Long Call.

the only way to make extra money is to have a line. Rsvs aren’t getting anything. On scr I haven’t worked since March. It’s why I bid it and not lcr. I see the dro and mainly it’s lcr guys getting a trip based on block and credit.

I was responding to somebody complaining about their commute. My answer was bid long call. You will rarely (if ever) have to come in and make roughly the same money. Thank those trying to make a few extra bucks for not ever having to come in.

I haven’t gotten a LCR call out in four months.

ya I mean the credit or block I see Is minimal but I’m on the 190 cpt side so that could be it.

Coming up on 7 months for me!


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I actually got called once in August for a day trip. I was shocked. I believe the guy ahead of me could not make the call out.