Any practical examples of McCaskill-Bond?
08-27-2022 | 07:10 AM
#1
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Gets Weekends Off
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Any practical examples of McCaskill-Bond?
I was trying to find some practical examples of M-B but cannot seem to find anything of substance.
We know that MB was part of the 2008 Federal Aviation Act which essentially codified certain parts of Allegheny-Mohawk, but it seems since there have only been 3 major cases involving M-B, 2 involving Flight Attendant unions and one was a dismissed case involving Republic and Frontier.
Can anyone provide any practical examples or theories of how its supposed to work for pilot groups? Is it true that your seat has bearing on the integration? If someone could explain it or post a link.
We know that MB was part of the 2008 Federal Aviation Act which essentially codified certain parts of Allegheny-Mohawk, but it seems since there have only been 3 major cases involving M-B, 2 involving Flight Attendant unions and one was a dismissed case involving Republic and Frontier.
Can anyone provide any practical examples or theories of how its supposed to work for pilot groups? Is it true that your seat has bearing on the integration? If someone could explain it or post a link.
08-27-2022 | 07:36 AM
#2
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From: blueJet
Your seat has no bearing on integration. The JetBlue guy Senior to you will still be Senior to you. The guy 1 number below you at JetBlue will still be below you on the new list.
So if you think today’s Junior JetBlue captains will move up the list, overtaking today’s Senior JetBlue FOs, then no. That’s not how it works.
So if you think today’s Junior JetBlue captains will move up the list, overtaking today’s Senior JetBlue FOs, then no. That’s not how it works.
08-27-2022 | 07:50 AM
#3
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Your seat has no bearing on integration. The JetBlue guy Senior to you will still be Senior to you. The guy 1 number below you at JetBlue will still be below you on the new list.
So if you think today’s Junior JetBlue captains will move up the list, overtaking today’s Senior JetBlue FOs, then no. That’s not how it works.
So if you think today’s Junior JetBlue captains will move up the list, overtaking today’s Senior JetBlue FOs, then no. That’s not how it works.
For example, according to APC, JB has 4650 pilots and Spirit has 3018. That means JB has approximately 1.55 times as many pilots as Spirit. If we were to try and break these down into a more manageable number to understand, for the sake of a simple math discussion we could say and estimate that JB has 9 pilots and Spirit has 6 pilots. Let's look at a mock seniority list under this example.
TODAY
J1 S1
J2 S2
J3 S3
J4 S4
J5 S5
J6 S6
J7
J8
J9
Let's assume J1 is more senior then S1 so he will be pilot number 1.
INTEGRATED
J1
J2
S1
J3
S2
J4
J5
S3
J6
S4
J7
J8
S5
J9
S6
Is this what it looks like?
08-27-2022 | 07:55 AM
#4
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Since both are ALPA, it depends on the results of the negotiated SLI. Or whatever the mediator decides if the two unions can’t agree - which is probably the norm. Based on the Alaska-Virgin example, it will likely be a mix of relative seniority and date of hire.
AS-VX formula:
AS-VX formula:
60% longevity, 40% status/category
Harmony model meaning the formula was applied straight through 60/40 with no other ratios/re-doing
No fences
Certain restrictions to protect current CAs on both sides in case of future base closure/reduction
Harmony model meaning the formula was applied straight through 60/40 with no other ratios/re-doing
No fences
Certain restrictions to protect current CAs on both sides in case of future base closure/reduction
08-27-2022 | 01:36 PM
#5
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I was trying to find some practical examples of M-B but cannot seem to find anything of substance.
We know that MB was part of the 2008 Federal Aviation Act which essentially codified certain parts of Allegheny-Mohawk, but it seems since there have only been 3 major cases involving M-B, 2 involving Flight Attendant unions and one was a dismissed case involving Republic and Frontier.
Can anyone provide any practical examples or theories of how its supposed to work for pilot groups? Is it true that your seat has bearing on the integration? If someone could explain it or post a link.
We know that MB was part of the 2008 Federal Aviation Act which essentially codified certain parts of Allegheny-Mohawk, but it seems since there have only been 3 major cases involving M-B, 2 involving Flight Attendant unions and one was a dismissed case involving Republic and Frontier.
Can anyone provide any practical examples or theories of how its supposed to work for pilot groups? Is it true that your seat has bearing on the integration? If someone could explain it or post a link.
Its going to be status & category with adjustments for longevity. I bet everyone stays within 2% of their current position.
If the merger is even allowed, and it won’t be for 3-4 years since the expectation is the merger won’t be approved until 2024 and then a contract negotiation has to happen (late 2025 for approval.
Probably no SLI until 2026.
I’d be shocked if an SLI happens before the beginning of 2026.
08-27-2022 | 01:44 PM
#6
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From: Yes
M-B is not relevant. ALPA Merger policy is controlling.
Its going to be status & category with adjustments for longevity. I bet everyone stays within 2% of their current position.
If the merger is even allowed, and it won’t be for 3-4 years since the expectation is the merger won’t be approved until 2024 and then a contract negotiation has to happen (late 2025 for approval.
Probably no SLI until 2026.
I’d be shocked if an SLI happens before the beginning of 2026.
Its going to be status & category with adjustments for longevity. I bet everyone stays within 2% of their current position.
If the merger is even allowed, and it won’t be for 3-4 years since the expectation is the merger won’t be approved until 2024 and then a contract negotiation has to happen (late 2025 for approval.
Probably no SLI until 2026.
I’d be shocked if an SLI happens before the beginning of 2026.
08-27-2022 | 02:00 PM
#7
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I'm not aware of any non-wide body mergers that took status and category into account. TWA had some WB CA seats fenced off, but not many. On the contrary, SouthWest downgraded every single AirTran captain. That was 2011/post-McCaskill-Bond, so allowed by precedence.
TWA was before MB, and what lead to it, so you are wrong.
And JB has three types with three different payscales so fencing is a real possibility. There is also expectations - most of the junior people at NK were recruited with the expectation of three year upgrades. JB not so much. It will wind up being what the mediator - not you or I - believes to be fair. Probably pretty much like AS and VX.
08-27-2022 | 02:00 PM
#8
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Joined: Jan 2013
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From: Seated
I'm not aware of any non-wide body mergers that took status and category into account. TWA had some WB CA seats fenced off, but not many. On the contrary, SouthWest downgraded every single AirTran captain. That was 2011/post-McCaskill-Bond, so allowed by precedence.
08-27-2022 | 02:20 PM
#10
SDQ Base Chief
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 6,089
Likes: 48
From: 320 CA
SWA-AirTran wasn’t ALPA/ALPA, so no precedent
TWA was before MB, and what lead to it, so you are wrong.
And JB has three types with three different payscales so fencing is a real possibility. There is also expectations - most of the junior people at NK were recruited with the expectation of three year upgrades. JB not so much. It will wind up being what the mediator - not you or I - believes to be fair. Probably pretty much like AS and VX.
TWA was before MB, and what lead to it, so you are wrong.
And JB has three types with three different payscales so fencing is a real possibility. There is also expectations - most of the junior people at NK were recruited with the expectation of three year upgrades. JB not so much. It will wind up being what the mediator - not you or I - believes to be fair. Probably pretty much like AS and VX.
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