Any negotiation rumors?
12-14-2022 | 12:33 PM
#492
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,165
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huh? I don't know what your point is but the rates that we have to compare is 320/321 or 737s if they didnt have those Airbus. If you want to include widebodies to prove a point then be my guess. The person is not wrong, which is my point.
12-14-2022 | 01:05 PM
#494
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 331
Likes: 0
My point is we do not have 319s so why include them in the average? If you average Delta’s current 321 and 320 rates they are higher than our current rates. Lets look at year 5 Captain for example: 321/320 at DAL averages to 265. At JB it is 259.
So, I don’t understand how PSU flyer thinks our current rates are higher than Delta’s? Am I missing something here? Or is including the 319 a way to justify being a discount pilot? If you want to include the 737 their rates are even higher.
12-14-2022 | 01:24 PM
#495
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 476
Likes: 1
First of all, my comment was in response to your post which implied we will never be able to get anywhere near Delta’s pay rates. I think that’s a terrible argument because we’re very to close to their rates already. I don’t think most people realize how close we really are.
Now, actual numbers (standard rounding):
A220-300
B6 - $271
DL- $269
A320
B6 - $283
DL - $274
A321
DL - $286
B6 - $283
Pretty close, wouldn’t you agree? I’d say there’s no reason we shouldn’t be able to match their pay rates, which was my whole point.
That being said, we should definitely be targeting their A321 rates.
Now, actual numbers (standard rounding):
A220-300
B6 - $271
DL- $269
A320
B6 - $283
DL - $274
A321
DL - $286
B6 - $283
Pretty close, wouldn’t you agree? I’d say there’s no reason we shouldn’t be able to match their pay rates, which was my whole point.
That being said, we should definitely be targeting their A321 rates.
12-14-2022 | 01:26 PM
#496
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,165
Likes: 38
My point is we do not have 319s so why include them in the average? If you average Delta’s current 321 and 320 rates they are higher than our current rates. Lets look at year 5 Captain for example: 321/320 at DAL averages to 265. At JB it is 259.
So, I don’t understand how PSU flyer thinks our current rates are higher than Delta’s? Am I missing something here? Or is including the 319 a way to justify being a discount pilot? If you want to include the 737 their rates are even higher.
So, I don’t understand how PSU flyer thinks our current rates are higher than Delta’s? Am I missing something here? Or is including the 319 a way to justify being a discount pilot? If you want to include the 737 their rates are even higher.
But I believe his intent was that we are in the ballpark of Delta rates so we shoud not accept anything less than, at very minimum, within the ballpark (and I will limit that to within $3-4) of Delta new rates and PS. That is all.
I believe you knew that though. Not sure why the specifics.
12-14-2022 | 01:29 PM
#497
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 1,035
Likes: 0
Does frontier get a discount on gas or airplanes because they are a ULCC? Then why should they get a discount on labor? Costs are costs. Labor is what it is. SWA for years was always the best paid narrowbody pilots, even when they weren’t as large as they are now and when they were lower cost. By you thinking that you deserve less “because you aren’t delta” and “don’t have the revenue streams of delta” or whatever, they have succeeded in brainwashing you (not unique to you, I’ve heard jetblue guys say the same thing). Frontier and spirit and allegiant had some of the best margins pre covid. In other words, they had the highest percentage of profit (revenue minus expenses). So on a per pilot basis, their revenues/profits were higher than at other carriers. So don’t think bigger airlines always have to pay more, and smaller pays less. Startups usually get a pass, but that’s generally because they give equity in exchange for pay.
unfortunately ULCCs and LCCs have been preying on the “well it’s better than my regional and i get to fly an Airbus” mentality to underpay pilots for a long time. Demand more. Know your worth. You are no less of a pilot than a delta guy. Demand to be compensated accordingly. If a business model doesn’t work with labor subsidizing the business, then eff that business, it deserves to go under. Too many guys at ULCC/LCCs regurgitate the “low cost is our competitive advantage, so we need to make less for the business to succeed so we can grow and be successful” line of garbage. Your job is to fly airplanes safely and make as much money as you can doing what you do, at least in line with what you are worth across the industry. The company’s job is to maximize profits and shareholder return. You let them do their job.
Would you write a check to Barry Biffle or Bill Franke for $10k to fund a payment on a new Rolls? No. So why make $10k less a year (or however much the difference is) than what you are worth? It’s effectively the same thing. Don’t work for less money so that other people make more money.
unfortunately ULCCs and LCCs have been preying on the “well it’s better than my regional and i get to fly an Airbus” mentality to underpay pilots for a long time. Demand more. Know your worth. You are no less of a pilot than a delta guy. Demand to be compensated accordingly. If a business model doesn’t work with labor subsidizing the business, then eff that business, it deserves to go under. Too many guys at ULCC/LCCs regurgitate the “low cost is our competitive advantage, so we need to make less for the business to succeed so we can grow and be successful” line of garbage. Your job is to fly airplanes safely and make as much money as you can doing what you do, at least in line with what you are worth across the industry. The company’s job is to maximize profits and shareholder return. You let them do their job.
Would you write a check to Barry Biffle or Bill Franke for $10k to fund a payment on a new Rolls? No. So why make $10k less a year (or however much the difference is) than what you are worth? It’s effectively the same thing. Don’t work for less money so that other people make more money.
12-14-2022 | 01:30 PM
#498
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 761
Likes: 52
First of all, my comment was in response to your post which implied we will never be able to get anywhere near Delta’s pay rates. I think that’s a terrible argument because we’re very to close to their rates already. I don’t think most people realize how close we really are.
Now, actual numbers (standard rounding):
A220-300
B6 - $271
DL- $269
A320
B6 - $283
DL - $274
A321
DL - $286
B6 - $283
Pretty close, wouldn’t you agree? I’d say there’s no reason we shouldn’t be able to match their pay rates, which was my whole point.
That being said, we should definitely be targeting their A321 rates.
Now, actual numbers (standard rounding):
A220-300
B6 - $271
DL- $269
A320
B6 - $283
DL - $274
A321
DL - $286
B6 - $283
Pretty close, wouldn’t you agree? I’d say there’s no reason we shouldn’t be able to match their pay rates, which was my whole point.
That being said, we should definitely be targeting their A321 rates.
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