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Originally Posted by Bluedriver
(Post 3562250)
Not in the mood to go into an answer that will do the truth justice right now, but I will.
Probably 95% of the drops/swaps denied to JB pilots are because of the reserve grid issues, not the lack of DTZ. Reserve grid issues are completely separate from DTZ. We desperately need reserve grid improvements, and that would fix 95% of the denied drops/swaps at JB. DT50 would fix the other 4 out of 5%... The drop to zero is important, NOT because of the trips that you drop or the trips that you pick up… truly that’s irrelevant. What is important are the days, the actual days are what’s important. The ability to pick what days you work and what days you don’t work without an artificial barrier of a minimum literally defines the quality of life. The trips or whether they’re good or not isn’t nearly as important as an individual pilot being able to define the days they work and the days they don’t work. If you’re held to a 50 hour minimum, you can’t truly define your schedule, the company defines your schedule you just make cosmetic changes to it. I’ll give an example… I was awarded a line next month worth 72 hours, during our combined Open Time process, I dropped my entire schedule except for the turn I had on New Year’s Day. Why? Because I wanted to watch the Daytona 24 on tv, I wanted to go on a boys golf trip and see the CFB National Title game. I dropped down to a five hour turn and rebuilt my entire schedule, back up to 65 hours picking and choosing the days off I wanted and the days I wanted to fly and leaving gaps where I could fill in with premium trips if I so desire. I fully expect to end up with around 80-85 hours credit at the end of the month, like I do every month while working the days I choose, NOT the days the company tells me I’m going to work. THAT is quality of life. Now, there are going to be specific dates that I can’t drop, usually Federal holidays, and yes you have to have reserve coverage, which tends to fluctuate, but those truly are the only restrictions because of the drop to zero provision. I’m trying to think of a QOL contract provision that is as important as this and I just can’t. It literally defines how and especially when you work in a given month. Losing the ability to drop to zero provision would be a huge concession, detrimental to both quality of life and pay. |
And this is why PS will never happen. We will be so in the weeds on this JCBA.
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Originally Posted by pilotpayne
(Post 3562291)
And this is why PS will never happen. We will be so in the weeds on this JCBA.
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Originally Posted by Lobaeux
(Post 3562285)
And I think we’ll see a concerted effort under a JCBA to address this reserve grid issue… but it’s not really the same thing we’re talking about.
The drop to zero is important, NOT because of the trips that you drop or the trips that you pick up… truly that’s irrelevant. What is important are the days, the actual days are what’s important. The ability to pick what days you work and what days you don’t work without an artificial barrier of a minimum literally defines the quality of life. The trips or whether they’re good or not isn’t nearly as important as an individual pilot being able to define the days they work and the days they don’t work. If you’re held to a 50 hour minimum, you can’t truly define your schedule, the company defines your schedule you just make cosmetic changes to it. I’ll give an example… I was awarded a line next month worth 72 hours, during our combined Open Time process, I dropped my entire schedule except for the turn I had on New Year’s Day. Why? Because I wanted to watch the Daytona 24 on tv, I wanted to go on a boys golf trip and see the CFB National Title game. I dropped down to a five hour turn and rebuilt my entire schedule, back up to 65 hours picking and choosing the days off I wanted and the days I wanted to fly and leaving gaps where I could fill in with premium trips if I so desire. I fully expect to end up with around 80-85 hours credit at the end of the month, like I do every month while working the days I choose, NOT the days the company tells me I’m going to work. THAT is quality of life. Now, there are going to be specific dates that I can’t drop, usually Federal holidays, and yes you have to have reserve coverage, which tends to fluctuate, but those truly are the only restrictions because of the drop to zero provision. I’m trying to think of a QOL contract provision that is as important as this and I just can’t. It literally defines how and especially when you work in a given month. Losing the ability to drop to zero provision would be a huge concession, detrimental to both quality of life and pay. Do you guys use PBS? |
Originally Posted by Bgood
(Post 3562294)
Exactly. "We'll get em next time"
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So let me ask the Spirit pilots… would you still want DTZ if only the top 5% of pilots in each seat/base got to drop, and then the grids went red, and the bottom 95% could not drop any trips or swap any reserve days? The only way to get a specific day off was to bang out sick?
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Originally Posted by Boomer
(Post 3562297)
So let me ask the Spirit pilots… would you still want DTZ if only the top 5% of pilots in each seat/base got to drop, and then the grids went red, and the bottom 95% could not drop any trips or swap any reserve days? The only way to get a specific day off was to bang out sick?
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Originally Posted by Lobaeux
(Post 3562285)
And I think we’ll see a concerted effort under a JCBA to address this reserve grid issue… but it’s not really the same thing we’re talking about.
The drop to zero is important, NOT because of the trips that you drop or the trips that you pick up… truly that’s irrelevant. What is important are the days, the actual days are what’s important. The ability to pick what days you work and what days you don’t work without an artificial barrier of a minimum literally defines the quality of life. The trips or whether they’re good or not isn’t nearly as important as an individual pilot being able to define the days they work and the days they don’t work. If you’re held to a 50 hour minimum, you can’t truly define your schedule, the company defines your schedule you just make cosmetic changes to it. I’ll give an example… I was awarded a line next month worth 72 hours, during our combined Open Time process, I dropped my entire schedule except for the turn I had on New Year’s Day. Why? Because I wanted to watch the Daytona 24 on tv, I wanted to go on a boys golf trip and see the CFB National Title game. I dropped down to a five hour turn and rebuilt my entire schedule, back up to 65 hours picking and choosing the days off I wanted and the days I wanted to fly and leaving gaps where I could fill in with premium trips if I so desire. I fully expect to end up with around 80-85 hours credit at the end of the month, like I do every month while working the days I choose, NOT the days the company tells me I’m going to work. THAT is quality of life. Now, there are going to be specific dates that I can’t drop, usually Federal holidays, and yes you have to have reserve coverage, which tends to fluctuate, but those truly are the only restrictions because of the drop to zero provision. I’m trying to think of a QOL contract provision that is as important as this and I just can’t. It literally defines how and especially when you work in a given month. Losing the ability to drop to zero provision would be a huge concession, detrimental to both quality of life and pay. Then, if your plans change, you can go to FLICA and do this thing called a "SWAP". Crazy concept, just stay with me here. You see trips in open time on days that are different than the trips you have. You initiate a "swap", which is this crazy command in the program which let's you trade the trip (s) you have for the ones you want! I would also recommend that if the trips in open time look better than the trips you have, you might want to revisit your bidding strategy or get help from a friend, as those trips should have been awarded to you before they became left-overs in open time... 95% of the denied drops/swaps JB pilots experience is because of our crap reserve grid rules, not because of DTZ. We ALL agree the reserve grid rules need to be fixed, and most of us would like to see a reduction in the min credit required. Hopefully in JCBA we can find the right balance to meet the majorities interests. |
After 10+ pages of back and forth on “drop to zero” I’ve come to the conclusion Spirit is even farther behind us contractually than I realized since this is literally the crown jewel of their CBA. Wow.
Do you have anything—anything?!—else? Hours of service, pay/overrides, strict rescheduling rules, literally anything that rivals the jetblue contract? All these years I’ve heard about the amazing contract but it seems like it’s just drop to zero and four days off. Womp womp. |
Originally Posted by disenchantMINT
(Post 3562347)
After 10+ pages of back and forth on “drop to zero” I’ve come to the conclusion Spirit is even farther behind us contractually than I realized since this is literally the crown jewel of their CBA. Wow.
Do you have anything—anything?!—else? Hours of service, pay/overrides, strict rescheduling rules, literally anything that rivals the jetblue contract? All these years I’ve heard about the amazing contract but it seems like it’s just drop to zero and four days off. Womp womp. |
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