The fact is you have no guarantee that we get anything back, let alone PS if we were to send this agreement back. It’s a risk. What if we took the rates on this now, and get PS back in next years JCBA negations? Sadly I agree that we won’t get PS in the JCBA. That falls on the union not educating our pilot group.

So why not stop now and play hard ball? A little myopic. We take this into spring break and summer in a full labor dispute. Recall CK and set ourselves up with someone who has a spine and will play tough come merger time.

Do you all not think there be another reason our NC tells us to settle for less during a JCBA? I for one think it’ll be a recession when people are worried about losing their jobs. I think the union will tell us we should vote for something below expectations for the sake of not losing jobs and company success. I’m not optimistic about we’ll get them at the JCBA. No PS from the company pretty much tells me all I need to know about their faith in negotiating. It doesn’t cost them anything if they aren’t making money but they still say no just so they can keep all the profits when making money.

What exactly is the “risk”.
You just said we could get PS in the JCBA but you don’t think we will and in the other post you say the company can fill classes with wet ATPS no problem. Again so why in the world did our company agree to this? They could have said nah we can wait. Also they defend something to the end that apparently everyone thinks is worthless.

All said in a respectful way. But I think most yes guys are just like give me the money now and maybe I’ll worry about this other stuff later. (That’s certainly a valid view and if I were to bet a majority view here)

Its going to be entertaining in a few years after the merger is done and the company starts making cash (otherwise why merge) we don’t get PS in the JCBA and all the guys are going to be like but but I thought you guys wouldn’t make money can I have some?

The risk is we send this back and get nothing in return. The company just pulls the offer, keeps filling classes with wet ATP’s and decides they can roll with what they’ve got until JCBA. That is an absolute valid risk in this scenario. Then what Joe? What if they decide to file for mediation? Also a possibility. Yea, for me it’s a substantial raise, and it makes more sense to take the money now….start negotiating again in 12 months (possibly even sooner). I’m not sure where the disconnect is here Joe? How am I contradicting myself? If we send it back, no I don’t think it comes back with PS….if at all. I don’t know why they agreed to this TA because it wasn’t designed to attract pilots (the company could have raised 1st year pay substantial but they didn’t). Kudos to the union for at least getting this done. They’re still putting peeps in classes. I’m done talking about this. It’s pointless. Vote your conscious. I’ll die on my bill during the JCBA.

It's the scared voting that JB management counts on. This is why this pilot group will never have nice things. We're cementing ourselves at the bottom of our peer groups because of ball-less betas who don't have the stones to stand up for what they're worth.

I follow but not necessarily agree with you but what does the company filing for mediation have to do with anything? So they say see you later and then ask for the gov't to force them to negotiate? huh? What logic would that have and why would that be a negative to us? Mediators want the quickest method and path of least resistance to an agreement. They also don't like to waste their limited time on negotiating a full contract to dump it into the waste bin when the merger is approved. So most likely a mediator if assigned by request of the company would want to re-establish negotiations towards an limited item extension. It would also be another voice in the room saying industry standard is a real profit sharing.

Puts everything on ice for what 6 months? Buys them more time. And then they come back and say yea we wanna negotiate…but we wanna open up all these other sections…thus taking it straight into the JCBA anyway. The point is, they don’t have to do this, and there comes a point from a cost effective analysis where it doesn’t make sense for them to do it. They need to tread water and manage costs until they can complete their acquisition. For me, it’s a short term win. Did I get everything I want? No, but it’s a negotiation. We both walked away feeling some pain. We need to start gearing up for the JCBA.

The company could have used that tactic when the union asked to pivot. They gladly indulged. Why did they agree to negotiate a short term contract extension in the first place when they could have just as easily said no, we want to renegotiate the entire thing.

Yeah, thats not how it works.