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Old 05-19-2005, 03:15 AM   #1  
On Reserve
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Joined APC: Apr 2005
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 21
Cool E190 Awards

Hey Gang,

Well, the E190 awards came out and it looks like it went all the way to the bottom of the list even down to pilots that are in A320 initial class. I for one, was a bit surprised, but was wondering how others view the results?

And please, let's try and leave the pay debate (we all pretty much agree it is a dismal subject) out of this particular discussion. I will admit, that the email from DB3 explaining the results was quite a tap dance, but that's a different story altogether.

So, what are the thoughts from the collective?

C yaaaa


P.S. can someone explain to me how to change the "New Hire" tag below my screen name? I tried in the profile section and couldn't find it??? Or does it say that until you reach a certain number of posts?

Last edited by jetblue320; 05-19-2005 at 03:19 AM.
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Old 05-19-2005, 06:58 AM   #2  
Floatplane
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Post EMB-190 Results?

I am not sure what you are looking for in terms of a response. For me it was truly a financial decision to not bid for the EMB-190. I don't know how you can have a discussion of the results and leave the pay issue out of the discussion. Furthermore, the way in which the bid was constructed with the fence built in to protect the yet to be hired new captains really did not sit too well with me either. But, it is what it is, and for me it was not the right choice.

I wish all of those who got the award the best of luck and success in their new positions. This will definately be a valuable asset to jetBlue and will give us a operational tool that we did not have in our bag of tricks prior to now. Hopefully, in the future we can have a more open and fluid process that will allow the pilots to be more fairly represented. Only time will tell.

I think the bid itself speaks volumes about the issue of pay. Not too many that could hold captain in the A-320 in the next 2 years took the bid. I am sure we all can read into that whatever we want, but for me I will choose to keep it simple, pay is what puts food on the table and a roof over my head. The rest is secondary.

Cheers!
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Old 05-19-2005, 08:06 AM   #3  
jblumindtrick
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It is great for the guys that wanted it and got it.

Neeleman told us that we should be happy because he considered farming the 190 outside of JetBlue.

So I am happy.

There were a lot of senior guys that were excited about flying the E-190 when it was first introduced. I wonder why none of them bid for it? How strange.
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Old 05-19-2005, 02:41 PM   #4  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 157
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I hope that all that bid the 190 are happy. Overall I think it is what everyone wanted. Those that wanted to stay in the 320 stayed, and those that wanted the 190 mostly got it (unless they did the percentage bid criteria).

My concern is for the new 190 FOs that will be hired from now on. Remember the presentation about pay and total compensation 320 vs 190 for those guys. The numbers were presented to show that a new 190 FO would upgrade in 6-12 months and how they would make more $$$ that a straight 320 FO that started at the same time. Remember this was done to "sell" us on the path and that it would be good for the new 190 FO. Well, that is out the window. I haven't done the numbers yet (I will), but I expect it to show that the new 190 FO will defintely be lower in total compensation than the straight 320 FO.

I know the numbers for 190 Captain were increased to take care of our current pilots and I 100% support that. But I still feel like some one just sold me a bill of goods or some swamp land in FL.....

But still, congrats on the guys who got Capt on the 190.
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Old 05-21-2005, 10:29 AM   #5  
Lennon
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There are some people who have been typed on the 190 out of seniority already. Not including the standards captain.

For all of the assurances that checkairmen would be selected after the bid came out... I'm thinking I could guess at least two of the names who have already been chosen.


Last edited by Lennon; 05-21-2005 at 10:33 AM.
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Old 06-08-2005, 05:56 AM   #6  
SAABDriver
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Default Street FO's for the 190's

Has the company started to hire FO's for the 190? The pay is a little disapointing. I always thought I could leave the regionals with a pay raise----even to the right seat.

As it stands now my pay would decrease by about 15k to start in the right seat of the 190.

Do you see the competitive hire times coming down? I find it hard to believe that someone with 2000hrs PIC Jet would want to go back to $37 an hour.

P
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Old 06-08-2005, 06:20 AM   #7  
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Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAABDriver
Has the company started to hire FO's for the 190? The pay is a little disapointing. I always thought I could leave the regionals with a pay raise----even to the right seat.

As it stands now my pay would decrease by about 15k to start in the right seat of the 190.

Do you see the competitive hire times coming down? I find it hard to believe that someone with 2000hrs PIC Jet would want to go back to $37 an hour.

P
We have been told that new hires will be given the choice of the A320 or the E190 when hired. So.... Don't pick the E190 and go with the A320. That will fix your pay problem. Upgrade to Capt will be 2-4 years. E190 would be lower pay and upgrade to Capt would be 1-1.5 years (since we plan to upgrade 143 A320 FOs to E190 Capt)

As for competive times. I would think that it will still take 3-4000 hours of PIC to get hired. 2000 is a little low (depending on your background, USAF/USN/USMC fighter guys would most likely compete with 2000 PIC).

Good luck,
Just my opinion....

FNG
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Old 06-08-2005, 06:43 AM   #8  
Meworry?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAABDriver
Has the company started to hire FO's for the 190? The pay is a little disapointing. I always thought I could leave the regionals with a pay raise----even to the right seat.

As it stands now my pay would decrease by about 15k to start in the right seat of the 190.

Do you see the competitive hire times coming down? I find it hard to believe that someone with 2000hrs PIC Jet would want to go back to $37 an hour.

P
Now that is an interesting perspective from outside the company. If we do not get the appropriate experience level of pilots to fly the 190, you would think pay would have to go up. I would add, though, that even in the best of times first year pay for FOs in the majors was awful. Pay went up quickly, though, unlike the 190.

Neeleman's problem, however, is that he sold the 190 to the Board of Directors based on operating cost, about $.08 per ASM, and labor was a huge part of that.

It seems obvious that anyone coming to Jetblue would be striving for the left seat in the 320. So, the decision to come to JB and go with the 190 would have to be based not on the initial 37$/hour, but on money earned over a lifetime. At some point, it will take two or three years to upgrade to 190 Captain, and 4-5 years to upgrade to 320 Captain. People will have to do the math. That is why seniority is overridden when it comes to the 190. Near as I can tell, you cannot go from 320 FO to 190 Captain, except for the original 140 pilots. However, anyone in the right seat of the 320 will be behind everyone in the company with a higher seniority number for upgrade, since 190 Captains can bid for the left seat in the Airbus. That encourages new hires to accept the 190 initially, since they only have to worry about 190 seniority for upgrade. Confused? Anyone see it differently?

Let me put it another way. If you join B6 as a 320 FO, you are stuck at that pay rate until you upgrade to Captain in the 320. You cannot bid 190 Captain, so someone junior to you can get that paycheck and you can't. However, every 190 guy senior to you can get 320 Captain before you do. So there might be good reason to bid 190 in the future, depending on 320 upgrade time.
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Old 06-08-2005, 07:46 AM   #9  
jblumindtrick
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Does anyone know where to find the FA pay chart for Jetblue?

I don't have the exact numbers but it may be wise to bid to be a FA because you can make close to, if not more than, the 190 FO.
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Old 06-09-2005, 06:08 AM   #10  
SAABDriver
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Default Re the 190

Thanks for the info Meworry?

I still have the desire to seek out B6. I know that in the long run it would be the best place (in my opinion) to go. I am now in the left seat of a SAAB for Colgan. I have talked to alot of you guys out of PWM and ORF while they were on my jumpseat..everyone seems pretty happy at B6. I think you will create a new perspective for some in the 190. The people department will be busy keeping people happy!

I heard the quality of life will be pretty good for the 190. I currently am based out of Providence and live there. We work like 4 on 3 off or somewhere like that. We are home every night and that means a lot to me too.....I heard the 190 will be more like a regional schedule and if they keep them cloe to BOS and JFK like someone on this post said...it would be great for me.

I just have to wait and see what happens. I have 4000TT and 2000Turbine...no jet. that is why I hope the competitive hiring will come down a little...I think it will unless like you say the pay goes up but with the .08 seat mile it might be tough.

Thanks for the info and hope to see you on the jumpseat!

P
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