Jetblue and United comparison
01-15-2017, 02:44 PM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: JetRight, JetLeft
Posts: 760
Originally Posted by Rascal
It is not just about the the contract. The culture of JetBlue is a problem. Remember we don't have pilots and flight attendants at JetBlue, we have CREWMEMBERS. Pilots at JetBlue are treated on par with flight attendants and this is not going to change anytime soon. The way this company handles IROP's is on par with the worst of the regionals. Last week, after a few inches of snow I waited well over an hour on hold with crew services to get a hotel. I was promised a hotel room ASAP and in the end I did not get one till 8 hours later. Because I did not get the room till 5AM, now I was illegal fly my scheduled flight that day. This type of stuff just doesn't happen at the other Majors.
A United pilot recently posted that his longest hold time for Crew Scheduling was 5 minutes.
Beware....what they promise and what they do are two very different things.
01-15-2017, 06:23 PM
#13
Squawking 2000
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Position: Skeptical
Posts: 737
Originally Posted by Papa Bear
I will never forget flying with a guy at the United regionals who told me a story how he used to be a Southwest Pilot !!!? He was on the line for 6 or 7 months when United got that big ass contract in 99' )I think). All his buddies at United told him he was an idiot for staying at Southwest because they were all going to be 73 captains in two years. So he leaves, furloughed twice ( 9/11, Age 65, financial meltdown 08') and now he's flying an RJ for 60 grand while his buddies all at SW are captains. I remember this story whenever my buddies at legacys tell me about how much money they will be making.
01-15-2017, 07:28 PM
#14
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Narrow/Left Wide/Right
Posts: 3,655
Originally Posted by Winston
Assuming this guy accepted recall (given his seniority if he was hired in the era you describe), he could now be a mid-level widebody FO on either coast making well over $200k, 16% 401k, well into 5-figure profit sharing, so...
01-15-2017, 07:47 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 224
Originally Posted by Papa Bear
Hopefully our union will be strong in the future and we get what we deserve.
Oh and BTW do you know what the strongest human emotion is before fear?
H.O.P.E.
Oh and BTW do you know what the strongest human emotion is before fear?
H.O.P.E.
You do not get what you deserve, you get what you have the leverage to negotiate.
All those guys flying sick, fatigued, doing standups, picking up trips, dropping the brake. They take away your leverage. They might as well just take money right out of your wallet.
01-15-2017, 09:25 PM
#17
Squawking 2000
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Position: Skeptical
Posts: 737
Originally Posted by 2isclear
Part of the reason Legacy Pilot pay is so much higher, is their sell out of scope and subsequent 'B scale' regional pay. What happens when the big 3 can no longer fly 40% of their passengers on regionals?
There are half as many legacies as there used to be. Have you seen their quarterly earnings? Have you seen the orders the big three are currently taking delivery of? Have you seen those pay rates? Have you seen the retirement graphs?
The supply/demand curve is a beautiful thing when it benefits YOU.
01-16-2017, 01:01 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,666
Originally Posted by Winston
You're conflating correlation with causation: sub-standard regional pay was expanded to the extent it has been at the point of a gun as bankruptcy courts dictated terms. In today's market, the reality is that that flying will be brought in-house and those former regional pilots will be paid close to 200% what they were formerly paid to fly the same or similar routes/equipment.
The mid term ESOP at UAL opened up the scope at UAL, contract 2000 even more. So even through there was the "gun to the head" of bankruptcy and the 70 seat gives away on round 2, that's not the complete story. Pilots willingly gave up scope on CBA's BEFORE 9/11. The BK/post 911 era just took it further.
Contract 2000 was a heavy jets for RJ's exchange.
"Don't worry about those RJs, you'll be a widebody CA!!!!!"
Ha ha, right......
Originally Posted by Winston
The supply/demand curve is a beautiful thing when it benefits YOU.
"Scope is junior guys problem....."
There's many of us that STILL have it fresh in our minds.
And sadly, those that have short memories.
Last edited by John Carr; 01-16-2017 at 01:21 AM.
01-16-2017, 07:54 AM
#19
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 97
Originally Posted by Winston
You're conflating correlation with causation: sub-standard regional pay was expanded to the extent it has been at the point of a gun as bankruptcy courts dictated terms. In today's market, the reality is that that flying will be brought in-house and those former regional pilots will be paid close to 200% what they were formerly paid to fly the same or similar routes/equipment.
There are half as many legacies as there used to be. Have you seen their quarterly earnings? Have you seen the orders the big three are currently taking delivery of? Have you seen those pay rates? Have you seen the retirement graphs?
The supply/demand curve is a beautiful thing when it benefits YOU.
There are half as many legacies as there used to be. Have you seen their quarterly earnings? Have you seen the orders the big three are currently taking delivery of? Have you seen those pay rates? Have you seen the retirement graphs?
The supply/demand curve is a beautiful thing when it benefits YOU.
This all sounds great but I don't see how legacys can start paying their regional pilots 200% when they hire them all and still make money. Give or take a few percentage points, they fly 40% of their passengers on their regionals. Even with oil as cheap as it is, it would be a huge swing in cost if they even took over 10% from the regionals. I hope I'm wrong but
I think hard times are ahead for the big three. Delta seems in the best position with already a strong domestic operation.
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