Sputnik

I don't mind his doom and gloom. It's silly, maudlin and over the top, but so what.

For someone to fail at something is fine. To assume that because they failed no one else could possibly succeed is incredibly arrogant and intellectually vacuous at best...or just psychotic.

And when presented with statements from people who have in fact done just fine, in this latest round USMC, 80kts and JohnBurke, he mutters incoherently (this time it's "China"). Then starts all over again with point 1.

It's silly to argue with crazy people.

JamesNoBrakes

I don't think that's accurate, he failed in a situation where it didn't matter how much he wanted something or how hard he tried, not because other people didn't fail.

Sputnik

James,

Not sure I'm following you. I have no idea why he failed, I suspect bad timing played a significant role.

What bores me is his overall thesis that since he failed, no one else should try. And that anyone who tried and succeeded is either fooling themselves, destroying their families, or doomed to later failure. Apparently now by "China."

I stopped engaging the guy years ago, not sure why I'm letting myself get dragged back into it now. I guess I thought he had finally gotten a life and left the boards and was surprised to see him here. I'm out.

atpwannabe

Not trying to buck the conversation, however, it seems that the FAA has ruled that if a drone is going to be operated at 300' or less, then the operator doesn't need to be medically certified or licensed. There may an opportunity to still "fly".

I decided to pursue this type of flying as a part-time job. Not sure what industry would fall in this category but I'm going to check into it. I'll just have to see what I come up with!



atp

SkyHigh

My dream was always to be able to support a family to a middle or upper middle class degree as an airline pilot while building a portfolio that would eventually lead to our financial independence. Hardship and changes to the industry proved to me that staying the course was going to jeopardize those goals. It seems as though the modern airline career is about employee sacrifice and sponsorship to support a working hobby and less about equitable investment and return.

Since being laid off and unable to find a replacement aviation job that held even a thin promise of supporting a family I have discovered opportunity outside of aviation and have largely achieved or exceeded my initial aspirations. Others here hold similar goals. USA Today says that it takes $130,000 per year to support the classic American dream for a family of four. $58,000 is the number that the Federal Government says is required just to cover the basic survival costs for a family of four. Only a handful of pilot jobs can provide what it takes to fully support the American dream. When taking the contemporary costs of training and education into account the prospect is foolish.

It is undeniable that aviation careers are in decline. If all one wants is to fly a plane then you are in luck, however if you want to earn a living and build a life to support a family then I hope that luck and considerable sponsorship are on your side. If you can not see the writing that is on the wall then don't be surprised at the future that awaits, natural selection is at work.

Skyhigh

2StgTurbine

That is called life. Most of my friends outside aviation are going through the same process. This is not unique to aviation. People sacrifice a lot for a dream job to discover it isn't as great as they thought. On top of that, the trend since the 70s has been to get employees to work more for less. There is a reason most people hate their jobs and wish they had more money, but few decide to go on a one man internet campaign to smear an entire profession. My sister is a PhD and just realized everyone in her career field is miserable and she is thinking about changing careers. Instead of being bitter and wishing someone told her this was going to happen, she is just accepting that you can't plan life out and is happy with the experiences she collected in her current career.

I think you need to take a more general approach. Aviation is not the problem. Saying you want a family, enough money to live comfortably, and a fun job is where you went wrong. Very few people can do all three. Instead, pick which one you value most and start there. If you are able to satisfy the other two along the way, then good for you.

JohnBurke

What was a hobby to you has been a career to those of us that "made it." The difference between you and the rest of us?

We didn't quit.

I ask you again; how's life living like a king?

Again with the lies.

You bantied these numbers around before, and said that it was impossible to get by on less than one hundred thirty thousand. I countered, showing that the actual numbers from the federal government proved your statements to be lies. You failed to respond. You're trying to float the same lie again, and now we see it's not based on credible data, but on a popular media newspaper article. Brilliant.

Only a hand full of pilot jobs can support the American dream? Hardly. Tens of thousands, and many more. You didn't stick around long enough to find out, and now speak from the position of a quitter, without a leg to stand upon. You can't speak for the industry, because you quit, and you can't speak against it, because your'e not qualified: you quit.

Your stories have never added up, whether it was coming from a family of aviators, yet you were fully deceived until you were well into your so-called career. How could anyone possibly be that blind and wilfully ignorant? They couldn't, which is to say your story isn't true. The sad fact is that you simply didn't try hard enough. Had you done so, you'd be living "the American dream," like so many thousands of us presently are.

Too bad for you.

It's quite deniable that aviation careers are in a decline; they're not. The industry runs in cycles, and presently is booming.

Presently I can do the kind of flying I enjoy, at which I am well qualified (because I didn't walk away early in the game), and make a very good living, working a relatively small percentage of the year.

Writing on the wall? How would you know. You're not even a working pilot. You were a wanna-be. Flying is a great career. You wouldn't know about that.

What this is really all about, and has always been about, is you. A sob story. Everyone stop what they're doing and look at skyhigh cry. Everybody shed a tear for skyhigh. Poor boy.

There's your fifteen minutes of fame. Time's up. Now get back to living like a king.

Rama

An Fo at a legacy or Fed EX, UPS, SWA, JB, Spirit, and some of the other cargo carriers can make 6 figures. That's a lot of people making a good living.

Cubdriver

No need to guess about it, the US Bureau of Labor Statistics says

"the median annual wage for airline pilots, copilots, and flight engineers was $114,200 in May 2012. The median wage is the wage at which half the workers in an occupation earned more than that amount and half earned less. The lowest 10 percent earned less than $66,970, and the top 10 percent earned more than $187,200."

Airline and Commercial Pilots : Occupational Outlook Handbook: : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

So if you anywhere near the middle of the pack as a pilot you're in 6 figure territory. I don't think SH ever argued that good money (6 figures) was not there for some, or even many. I think the gist of his argument was the risk, time, and training investment is too great for an iffy payoff when you can hit 6 figures doing other things that require less in those areas. He has a valid point, and one of the most impressive things SH ever said was that even if you make it, there is a huge opportunity cost that few bother to consider. This is because of the nonlinear multiplication factor that goes into computing accrued interest with time. There is a large opportunity cost for any career where the payoff is delayed, as it is in pro flying. One can say, most pilots make 6 figures eventually which is correct; but how far into their career did that happen? We had a thread recently where the topic was how fast did you make it to Delta and some people said about ten years. We can debate what was that average- but it was a long time compared to most white collar careers. Great for them to even make it perhaps, but in this fairly quick ascension scenario the opportunity cost of delaying income attainment has to be figured at rates much higher than linear calculation would suggest.

80ktsClamp

I pulled in over 200 last year as an FO at DL... thousands of others did the same.

2/3 of pilot jobs in the US are major or mainline, and that number is increasing. The trend that SH tries to make believe is there is imaginary.