kevbo

The high opportunity cost of being a pro pilot is almost always paid by someone else. I never met a poor kid that became an airline captain, those guys were always sponsored.

JohnBurke

You have now.

TonyC

That sounds like a lame excuse for not working hard to achieve a lofty goal. Woe is me, I'll never be able to achieve that, only people with special help can achieve that, and here I am, poor pitiful me, with only myself to work for me.

Poppycock.

I don't know how you define poor, and I don't consider myself as having been a poor kid, but my family sure couldn't afford to send me to college or pay for flying lessons. I had no sponsor. I applied myself, worked hard, did NOT give up when things got hard (like some people here have done, and would like others to do so they'd feel better about themselves for quitting), and I achieved my goals.

I'm not the only one. There are many, many more who have done the same thing and have achieved their goals. Desire and determination are far more valuable than money and sponsors.


Successful people don't take advice from quitters.






.

kevbo

Everyone pushed a lawnmower to pay for flight training, right. I worked at a flight school for a long time, I know the demographic well.

JohnBurke

Apparently you don't know the "demographic" as well as you think.

Many, if not most of us, flight instructed; you've hardly an exclusive background there.

I don't know that "all" have responded. I did, and yes, I did push a lawnmower, as well as cycle fifteen miles to the airport to wash and wax airplanes, do maintenance, pump fuel, and so on, in exchange for flight time. I mowed lawns, walked highways and tracks and collected cans at rodeos and events, and anything else I could do for money. We had thrift store clothes, no television, no microwave, and by any account were dirt poor. I worked summers doing custodial work, worked in a bookstore, made pizzas. I mowed lawns for instructor's mothers, and managed to get high school homework done at the same time.

Whatever the "demographic" that you think you know from your small corner of the world, you've clearly not seen everything yet. Some of us worked quite hard to get here, and by consequence, appreciate what we have. It's been earned.

SkyHigh

The opportunity cost is the opportunity lost. or The carrot and the stick.

To what end does it profit one to spend a small fortune on training and education plus a decade or more beyond college to finally secure a position at a legacy airline that most likely starts at around half a mailman's wage? Airline pilots used to be very wealthy. They were richer than surgeons and orthodontists. They owned the biggest ranches in town, paid for several families at once, and owned fancy airplanes. They were able to accomplish those things largely because they did not have as much school debt and were hired by a well paying legacy while still in their mid 20's.

Today education and flight training are approaching four times the cost of when I went to college (after adjusting for inflation) while airline wages and benefits are less than half of what they were 20 years ago. It is also taking much longer to reach a legacy airline job. The sum is that the career return is considerably lower than in past generations. The carrot is that if one is a dedicated to their airline dream it is possible to reach an upper middle class income somewhere mid span in the normal trajectory of ones career however to what end? How is it a benefit to finally hit six figures decades into your professional life long after the kids are grown and gone? The concept of compounding interest rewards those who are able to begin their financial lives earlier.

I sat next to plenty of captains who were finally able to buy the dream house in their mid-50's during the sunset of their careers. All the while the bulk of their mortgage payments were still ahead and only crumbs in the 401K. I can only imagine what happened to them once they were pushed out at 60. The stick is that it will most likely be a financially hollow victory. Six figures past middle age is very nice and no one would complain however to receive it so late in the game is not as advantageous as earning an average wage with less debt starting younger in life. The government is only going to take it in taxes anyway.


Skyhigh

2StgTurbine

And my Grandpa owned two houses while raising 6 kids on a teacher's salary. Times change.

SkyHigh

I am not gathering the essence of your point. Should we stick it out in spite of the negative down turn or are you saying that we should become teachers?

Skyhigh

bedrock

The fact that pilot's wages are lower is just an indicator in the slip of the dollar. A family in the US used to be able to survive on one income, that is rare these days. Massive inflation caused by bad policy has destroyed the old living standard, now our living std is just based on debt. The regional game has made it purposefully very difficult to get ahead, they bankrupt airlines to cut labor costs, and lack of job mobility exacerbates the problem. The longer the majors can keep you poorly paid at a regional, the better it is for them. ALPA goes along with this. The airline career, like no other, is largely out of the control of the participants. If you get in at the right time, IF you can upgrade, IF your airline doesn't go bankrupt, IF your (regional) doesn't lose the contract(s), IF your health stays good, IF there isn't a major crisis somewhere, IF you don't get furloughed, IF, IF, IF. In other fields, you can actually quit and find another job w/o taking such a huge loss, and have more control over your advancement and schedule.

So for someone who put up with the BS for a certain amount of time, then realized the cons weren't worth it, is he wrong to state so? Barry Schiff, Sully and other notables have even said they wouldn't recommend the career anymore.

2StgTurbine

I am saying that it is silly that your are trying to convince people that aviation is inherently a bad industry. Lots of jobs were better in the 70s and 80s than they are now.