Cubdriver

[mod note]

Cut out the insults and stay on topic please. We all have individual values and tastes that have to be at least minimally respected by others.

JohnBurke

Yes. There is.

Albief15

(Best Johnny Carson voice...) "I did not know that..." Got a fine dawg myself, several cats, and while we don't currently have one we've had a host of rabbits too. Critters make a tough day bearable, and good day all the richer...

Got a daughter pursuing aviation now. Here was my advice: Don't judge an airline career by what you see your dad doing...I was fortunate enough to get hired at the right time by the right company, and the money I make here is not necessarily indicative of reasonable career expectations. What I can tell you is when I was flying at an aero club with a brand new temporary CFI certificate make a whole 18 bucks an hour, I loved it. When I later instructed at my University for less than 5 bucks an hour (really!) I loved that too. (Pay went up to about 10 an hour later...) When I was up at o-dark with 30 other clueless lieutenants at UPT, I was having the time of my life (but making not so much money...) I loved it. When I was busting my butt in OV-10 training, and later deploying TDY around the globe...I was having a ball. Later.. being the new guy in an F-15 squadron was a ton of work and stress, but also immensely satisfying. Later when I was a flight lead, and instructor pilot, a flight commander...it was the best job ever and I loved it. Even as a new hire 727 second officer, flying around the country at horrendous hours...I was having fun. See--if you flying, like travel, like other pilots, and don't mind dragging a roller board behind you through airports...you can have a ball at this profession. If you only want the money, or have to be at home to be happy, no amount of money or benefits will ever make you happy.

And on the material side...I have lived that American dream and bought way too many toys and houses over the years. In the last few months I've sold 2 boats, plan on selling 2 of 4 cars, and am renting out an office/rental house and our current home...all to go move into (maybe) a 1000-1200 square foot place in Hong Kong. Stuff is nice, but it doesn't make you happy. People you love make you happy...and I've put one through college and have another on the way...and the third one gets to go to a private IB school overseas for a few years for a welcome adventure along with her mother and me. The job has created a lot more wealth that just money, its offered us time, travel, and adventure. It sure isn't for everyone...but I cannot imagine doing anything else that I would enjoy nearly as much.

kevbo

Aviation is keeping it "real" for me. I have no career and a 25 Y/O car.

JohnBurke

This is the fault of aviation?

kevbo

Initially it was lack of opportunity, being one in a million wannabes. Then it was every employer going bankrupt. Then it was being a little too old to start over, (again). It was fun for a while, then it became a frustrating and boring job. I knew that my window of opportunity had passed and that it would be fruitless to continue. I would take any flying or maintenance job that offered a better life than I currently enjoy. As it is, I would take a big cut going back.

JohnBurke

Sounds as though it's better for all that you're not in aviation, then.

kevbo

There are many people that are very happy I participated in aviation. The owners of the flight and maintenance schools where happy to take my money. My former employers were happy to get years of cut rate help before "they" cashed my retirement check and went to the beach.

JohnBurke

It's always the other guys fault that things didn't work out.

The pilot in command takes ultimate responsibility for the outcome of the flight.

One in command of his career takes responsibility for it's outcome, too.

If one isn't prepared to exercise that kind of authority and take that level of responsibility, one is best getting out.

Flight schools take your money and in return you get what you came for: certification. Maintenance schools do the same; you become certificated. Some of us did it the hard way and continue to use those skills. The snap-on man didn't rip me off by selling a wrench or ratchet handle; I got what I paid for; a professional tool. The flight school did the same thing; you got professional credentials to do the job. If that's not enough, don't spend the money. Who put a gun to your head and forced you into aviation?

Lay the blame at your doorstep. It's the adult thing to do.

JamesNoBrakes

To be fair, you are expecting people to make critical decisions about their future before they go to school to learn how to critically think. Kind of doesn't make sense, right? Once they commit they start racking up the bills, but by the time most of them realize the real stagnation in the industry, the real rungs of the ladder they have to climb, the real time it may take and the real chances of getting where they want, it is long after they've committed. I'm not going to claim that these kids are overtly preyed upon, but the lack of real information on which to make a decision and their current level of cognitive and critical thinking makes the whole "you knew what you were getting into" a little far-fetched.