Hand Flying policy
11-26-2017, 06:24 PM
#141
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by detpilot
Disagree. Hand flying is a skill that atrophies. The majority of us who handfly a lot spent years hand flying during our formative years as well, yet still understand the need to keep that skill fresh. And, if hand flying is preventing you from thinking about your runway exit or the coffee on ops, then perhaps you need more practice to get back to when it felt like second nature.
There is a noticeable difference in smoothness, SA, landing ability, and confidence between the Captains I fly with who handfly often, and those who never do.
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There is a noticeable difference in smoothness, SA, landing ability, and confidence between the Captains I fly with who handfly often, and those who never do.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
You've got that right. Get a guy that has been on the plane for a while and just throws the AP on and never turns off the autothrust and watch them try to hand fly an ILS without the FD and autothrust. It gets ugly quick, as those skills, particularly the scan and feel for the plane (yes, even the 320 has a feel) atrophy quite fast.
11-27-2017, 04:47 AM
#143
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Window seat
Posts: 5,213
Improvements in autopilot ability, and smoothness, have increased it’s use. 727 and early 737 A/P’s could be a PITA to use. Handflying was easier. S80 with v/s and PERF was an improvement. 757/767 automation, and smoothness, was a higher level. But they still have smoothness issues. Those smoothness issues can be mitigated by utilizing a different level of automation or hand flying.
And the automation is limited by it’s software. It can’t accelerate faster, or slower, utilizing pitch attitude, to adjust for wake turbulence clearance, or terrain required climb angle/rate requirements.
Automation is a wonderful tool but it’s not always the best, or first, answer.
And the automation is limited by it’s software. It can’t accelerate faster, or slower, utilizing pitch attitude, to adjust for wake turbulence clearance, or terrain required climb angle/rate requirements.
Automation is a wonderful tool but it’s not always the best, or first, answer.
Last edited by Sliceback; 11-27-2017 at 04:48 AM. Reason: Spelling.
11-27-2017, 10:58 AM
#144
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Position: Q400, B-737
Posts: 324
Long ago, the guy who started me off down this path told me about his experience at TWA.
The company really pressed people to use the AP and not hand-fly. It was more efficient they said, and conserved fuel. Spike pointed out that during pro-checks in the sim, the guys most prone to busting rides were the ones that followed the compay’s proceedures most closely. I.E., the AP always “on” guys.
I’ve always remembered that and try to hand-fly quite a bit down low.
(It’s more fun anyway.)
The company really pressed people to use the AP and not hand-fly. It was more efficient they said, and conserved fuel. Spike pointed out that during pro-checks in the sim, the guys most prone to busting rides were the ones that followed the compay’s proceedures most closely. I.E., the AP always “on” guys.
I’ve always remembered that and try to hand-fly quite a bit down low.
(It’s more fun anyway.)
11-27-2017, 11:13 AM
#145
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Trying not to crash
Posts: 1,260
Originally Posted by galleycafe
I didn't realize there were so many Bob Hoovers out there.
Kudos!
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Kudos!
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11-27-2017, 12:50 PM
#147
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: Downwind, headed straight for the rocks, shanghaied aboard the ship of fools.
Posts: 1,128
Originally Posted by galleycafe
I didn't realize there were so many Bob Hoovers out there.
Kudos!
Plane Coffee
Kudos!
Plane Coffee
11-28-2017, 02:23 PM
#149
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Posts: 761
Originally Posted by labbats
As you gain experience you won’t need to hand fly all the time any more than you need to get a feel of driving your car.
I think you answered your own question. Many of us felt exactly like you did but all of us at your level are basically like a 16 or 17 year old who just can’t understand the driving techniques of your parents. Those captains have hand flown 1000s of times and don’t need to anymore. They have the skills and now allow themselves the ability to see and understand all around them instead of just putting all of their focus on one thing.
I’m sure you’re a good pilot and we can all relate but when I was a fresh FO and felt the same as you I was also repeatedly stunned when those same lazy captains would know exactly what to do in situations I had no answer for.
I can only speak for myself but I hand flew as a flight instructor and freight dog. I hand flew all the time as a new jet FO. I’m not afraid of hand flying but my time is better spent considering wake turbulence, windshear, proximity of other aircraft, monitoring FOs, what MELs may affect us, if this station has a good GPU or deice crew or will they need me to remind them to warm up the truck, what reports I need to fill out for a sick passenger or if they used an oxygen bottle for it that needs a MEL write up and how I plan to roll out and taxi in most efficiently. You on the other hand are focused on one thing only. A thing that most beside you mastered long ago.
I think you answered your own question. Many of us felt exactly like you did but all of us at your level are basically like a 16 or 17 year old who just can’t understand the driving techniques of your parents. Those captains have hand flown 1000s of times and don’t need to anymore. They have the skills and now allow themselves the ability to see and understand all around them instead of just putting all of their focus on one thing.
I’m sure you’re a good pilot and we can all relate but when I was a fresh FO and felt the same as you I was also repeatedly stunned when those same lazy captains would know exactly what to do in situations I had no answer for.
I can only speak for myself but I hand flew as a flight instructor and freight dog. I hand flew all the time as a new jet FO. I’m not afraid of hand flying but my time is better spent considering wake turbulence, windshear, proximity of other aircraft, monitoring FOs, what MELs may affect us, if this station has a good GPU or deice crew or will they need me to remind them to warm up the truck, what reports I need to fill out for a sick passenger or if they used an oxygen bottle for it that needs a MEL write up and how I plan to roll out and taxi in most efficiently. You on the other hand are focused on one thing only. A thing that most beside you mastered long ago.
Would the Feds telling you that you're being a a b*tch change your mind?
FAA Report Says Airline Pilots Rely Too Much on Automation | TIME.com
11-28-2017, 02:28 PM
#150
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 419
Originally Posted by MantisToboggan
If hand flying is taking away so much of your brain power that you can't consider all those factors, have you ever considered that you aren't proficient enough??
Would the Feds telling you that you're being a a b*tch change your mind?
FAA Report Says Airline Pilots Rely Too Much on Automation | TIME.com
Would the Feds telling you that you're being a a b*tch change your mind?
FAA Report Says Airline Pilots Rely Too Much on Automation | TIME.com
So much safety improvement going on!
Aircraft Mochachino
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