SWA vs UPS
11-22-2018, 11:15 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Maddog FO
Posts: 651
Originally Posted by flyguy81
Haha.
It's all relative. If you want to travel the world on the company dime and fly some bigger metal.....don't work for WN, B6, F9, NK, G4.
If you want to be home and have a good QOL....the LCC's might be more appealing.
For me, it was about the QOL. I lived in a WN base and decided I hated commuting and wasn't going to move. Would I want to fly something bigger? Sure, although the thought of sitting in a jet for 14 hours straight sounds like torture.
All these SWA vs XYZ threads are silly.
1. Where do you want to live?
2. What do you want out of your career?
Pick the airline that satisfies both answers, assuming you can get a call and get hired. It's really that simple. You won't know if you made a good call until your retirement party.
It's all relative. If you want to travel the world on the company dime and fly some bigger metal.....don't work for WN, B6, F9, NK, G4.
If you want to be home and have a good QOL....the LCC's might be more appealing.
For me, it was about the QOL. I lived in a WN base and decided I hated commuting and wasn't going to move. Would I want to fly something bigger? Sure, although the thought of sitting in a jet for 14 hours straight sounds like torture.
All these SWA vs XYZ threads are silly.
1. Where do you want to live?
2. What do you want out of your career?
Pick the airline that satisfies both answers, assuming you can get a call and get hired. It's really that simple. You won't know if you made a good call until your retirement party.
11-22-2018, 05:56 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,843
Originally Posted by Roper92
Interesting take. I see quicker QOL at the legacies because of the multiple aircraft and seat positions available. You can choose to stay in a junior seat and climb the list rapidly. To each their own. Great problem to have. Hard to beat having a pension plus a 12%DC (or even 9% at FDX).
What UPS/FedEx have that nobody else does it the A plan (pension). You'll make more at UPS and won't need to swap jets for more $ since the pay is the same.
That said, most everyone else has PBS and it's a double edged sword. Sure you can pick and choose trips that fit your monthly needs but during training/vacation months you're nowhere near the QOL that line bidding gets you.
There's plusses and minuses at any carrier. I'd just go where you think you'll feel fulfilled in your career and where your commute will be minimal to net you more time at home. If that's UPS, then go there. If that's SWA, then stay put. If its someone else....well, you get the point.
11-24-2018, 10:12 PM
#23
On Reserve
Joined APC: May 2011
Posts: 15
Originally Posted by viper548
Live in base if at all possible. I'd choose UPS over southwest but if you are set on living in a Southwest base, then I'd work there. I recently moved to base and life is SO much better. I had a pretty easy commute (SMF-PHX). 1.5hr flight, 10 flights a day, almost never in the jumpseat. I would leave my house on average 5 hours prior to show time and i would get home on average 5 hours after release. 10 hours a week x 50 weeks a year=500 hours just going to and from work. Add in a few times we diverted on the last leg of the trip and had to spend the night. Living in base 7 miles from the airport I leave 30 mins prior to show and get home about 20 minutes after release. Career earnings are lower at Southwest but living in base will give you more opportunity for last minute premium trips.
Why would anyone commute to PHX when you can drive to OAK? Oh yeah the squadron. Good move
11-25-2018, 06:35 AM
#25
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Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,094
Originally Posted by Roper92
Great problem to have. Hard to beat having a pension
It’s happened at almost every airline that had a pension. What would you do if it happens the day after you retire?
11-25-2018, 07:22 AM
#27
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Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,094
Originally Posted by BoilerUP
Live off the money saved in your 401k and defined contribution fund?
But how many people with the promise of a $100,000+ a year pension would be doing that?
I don’t know the statistics on that, but I do see a lot of old airline pilots working as simulator instructors, etc after age 65. They all seemed to be legacy guys who lost a pension in bankruptcy.
11-25-2018, 07:34 AM
#28
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,512
Originally Posted by Profane Kahuna
But how many people with the promise of a $100,000+ a year pension would be doing that?
Of course bankruptcy laws have changed since the legacies had their pensions taken...
I don’t know the statistics on that, but I do see a lot of old airline pilots working as simulator instructors, etc after age 65. They all seemed to be legacy guys who lost a pension in bankruptcy.
Are they working post-65 because of need (divorces, expensive lifestyle, bad investments) or just “something to do”? Prob a mix of both...
11-25-2018, 09:27 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,094
Originally Posted by BoilerUP
Given that both UPS (12%) and FDX (9%) have defined contribution plans in addition to their DB pensions, and all have watched the legacies lose their DB pensions in 1113 proceedings over the last 17 years, I’d hazard to say virtually all.
Of course bankruptcy laws have changed since the legacies had their pensions taken...
Are they working post-65 because of need (divorces, expensive lifestyle, bad investments) or just “something to do”? Prob a mix of both...
Of course bankruptcy laws have changed since the legacies had their pensions taken...
Are they working post-65 because of need (divorces, expensive lifestyle, bad investments) or just “something to do”? Prob a mix of both...
So in my opinion, “virtually all” is a pretty bold statement that doesn’t match the reality of the last pilot era that went through mass bankruptcies. They are working past 65 and blame the loss of pension as the reason.
I hope my friends at FedEx and UPS never have to live through that.
11-25-2018, 09:42 AM
#30
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,512
The last time there were mass bankruptcies that caused pilot groups to lose their defined benefit pensions, practically none also had a defined contribution plan.
Losing the DB meant they lost all their retirement income.
UPS and FDX pilots both currently have diversified retirement income from both DB and DC plans, providing a level of risk mitigation that didn’t exist for many (most) legacy pilots in the early 2000s.
Put another way, it’d be ignorant to think pilots that still have DB plans today did not, as a whole, learn any financial lessons from the post-9/11 bankruptcy era.
Losing the DB meant they lost all their retirement income.
UPS and FDX pilots both currently have diversified retirement income from both DB and DC plans, providing a level of risk mitigation that didn’t exist for many (most) legacy pilots in the early 2000s.
Put another way, it’d be ignorant to think pilots that still have DB plans today did not, as a whole, learn any financial lessons from the post-9/11 bankruptcy era.
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