Do you have any idea, have done any research into these pension plans? The structure, the funding levels?

While nothing is impossible, Fedex and UPS were still making money during the great recession. There are two ways for a company to get rid of a pension plan, and one of them is now very limited (bankruptcy), the other being the union negotiating it away. Again, while not impossible, I simply can’t see Fedex or UPS getting to the level of bankruptcy, especially when revenue and income has steadily been increasing for many years, high single digits solid and steady, with a small trough 2009-2011. Personally, I’d rather have say a 25-30% DC in lieu of a mixed DB/DC, but that will most likely never happen.

Comparing the Legacy DB wipe out with Fedex/UPS is not even in the same ballpark.

Basing, well, living in base is completely priceless!! WN is a great job, however, IF upgrade time is important to someone, I would most definitely not go to WN. You are going to sit right seat for a looooooong time, and the large amount of hiring the last 5 years would make me hesitate a bit. Very young work force.

Flying 10pm to 6am consistently is very hard on the body, takes a lot of discipline to get proper amount of rest, exercise, etc, not for everyone, regardless of $$$$$.

No right or wrong answer.

 

It would be ignorant to think that everyone saves extra and would be happy to lose $100,000+ per year in retirement income.

 

I did not make any disparaging statements about FedEx, UPS, or the state of their pension plans or business model as a whole. I actually think they are great companies and will probably do well in the future. And yes I have done the research to include reading through 10-K and other SEC filings of various airlines.

I am just saying thay if you pay attention to airline history; almost everyone goes bankrupt at some point in time and everybody loses their pension.

Pan Am, TWA, etc were some of the titans of the industry but it even happened to them.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List..._United_States

 

You are comparing pax airlines vs cargo companies, totally different segments. The ONLY thing that airlines have in common with cargo companies is they fly airplanes. Even the yields of the airline segments are much different.

 

I’m not sure where you see me comparing cargo to pax operations. I never made any comparison. I simply said the history of airlines is full of bankruptcies where the companies shed CBAs and steal pensions.

Here is another list, there are cargo companies on it.

Airlines For America | U.S. Airline Bankruptcies

I hope no one has to go through this in the future, pax or cargo. But I am not going to ignore the history of this industry when it comes to bankruptcies and pensions.

 

I'd offer that an AI augmented cockpit driven by the liabilities associated with a hull loss caused by fatigue/error would be a more valid point of concern than a bankruptcy/loss of an A plan.

10 years ago if you told people they could buy a house on your phone, elevators, trains, and Ubers would run by autonomously...it was humorous.

Evaluate the liability associated with the typical widebody, operating over a dense urban areas, with fatigued crews at 0230, in complex airspace....that'll be what drives the investments to mature the tech to augment our cockpits with AI.

Human error can only serve to accelerate the timeline.

 

Thanks for the input.

 

The elephant in the room is the toll that working at FDX or UPS takes on one’s body over a 30+ year career. Who gives a damn if there’s a pension if a large percentage of pilots are dead by age 70. I know that for the decade I flew long haul I could feel a tangible difference in my fatigue level and overall well being. I bailed and now fly mostly domestic stuff. I’m sure that a little digging could produce the actual stats re lifespans of pilots at UAL,DAL, and AMR vs FDX or UPS. But I’d be willing to bet that freight pilots lifespans are signifigantly shorter than legacy carrier pilots.

 

Elephant? Cool story bro. I guess flying less than half the block hours over a 30-year career makes the lowly box hauler die sooner? I’ll take my 400 block hours a year in a widebody any day. I’m not a math guy, but 1000 block hrs a year as a pax bubba is...greater than 2x the radiation exposure? Pray tell, doctor, how is it that cargo guys universally perish at age 70?

Love to hear the uneducated stabs at cargo guys from the pax fellas. It may have been pure nights for cargo back when you rode a dinosaur to work...stick your head out of your hole and absorb some new data. Check out CURRENT bidpacks before propagating fake news.

The pension should probably be a non-factor in choosing, at least @ Purple. I’m not counting on that being there for me due to union shenanigans.

I’m sure you need to reload your quiver of Internet arrows and get back to Rachel Maddow. Cya.

 

Sigh...

You’ve chosen to make it personal. That’s unfortunate. For starters, I fly nowhere near 1000 hours. Closer to 550-600. Second, nobody referred to freight flying as “lowly” pilots. Your delicate sensibilities are showing. It’s a genuine concern that deserves more that a “cool story bro” juvenile response. I concede that the overall compensation package is better there. Just want those thinking about it to understand the very real health risks associated with a career of back side of the clock flying.

Take care.