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Old 02-10-2019 | 06:29 PM
  #31  
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Default attendance/reliability program

Originally Posted by EMBFlyer
At XJT, after 3 unexcused absences in a rolling 12 months, it triggered the Attendance and Reliability Program. It started with a verbal warning and could go all the way "Up to, and including, termination" (learn that phrase). However, if you brought in a Dr's note, the absence would be excused and not trigger the program.



At AA, we seem to be treated much better in that regard. The only time you need a Dr's note is after 14 consecutive days on a sick call. I've never been asked for a Dr's note or proof of anything when I've called out sick here...regardless of the day of the year.

Just to add to this as I also was at xjt when this doctor note policy came to be. The doctor’s note is a negotiated policy in the contract (came about through a unrelated group grievance that was settled). This is a contractual clause and not part of the FOM. It states that as long as you provide a doctor’s note for calling in sick, the absence doesn’t count as an attendance event per the Attendance and Reliability policy (which is in the FOM). The note must be from a medical professional and submitted on your next assignment. The Cheif pilot can request a doctor’s note for sick calls before or after company holidays or vacation. If you are asked to provide a note, the company pays for your costs of getting it.

If you don’t submit a note per the contract, the absence counts toward the A&R policy which states that in a rolling 12 months (365 days), you get a verbal warning on the 4th, written warning on the 5th, and termination warning on the 6th.

Each sick call can be as long as 14 days. However many assignments fall within those 14 days are all part of the same sick call and not counted as separate attendance events.

I have yet to hear of another contractually negotiated sick call clause as generous as this one.
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Old 02-10-2019 | 06:33 PM
  #32  
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People scam the system.
It’s that easy.
Doesn’t matter if you work for Walmart or United, people scam the system.

You’re a pilot and most likely not a Doctor.
When you’re sick you go see a doctor.
Get a note.
It’s THAT easy.

It’s already paid time off.
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Old 02-10-2019 | 07:52 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by captjns
40+ years since grade school. My parents can’t sign my absentee note as are both deceased. That said, in response to your question... not a prayer!
I didn’t ask a question.
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Old 02-10-2019 | 08:08 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by TiredSoul
You’re a pilot and most likely not a Doctor.
When you’re sick you go see a doctor.
Get a note.
It’s THAT easy.
That is ridiculous, when you have something that is easily self-diagnosed and treated, but keeps you from being fit-for-work, all you are doing by going to the doctor is infecting other people and clogging up the healthcare system. Granted, there is a line where you need to see the doctor, no argument, but the idea that you have to with any sick day? Come on, that's ridiculous. Because I ate some bad Chinese food and am laid up for a day I need to come in and poop on the floor of the doctor's office to get a note?
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Old 02-10-2019 | 08:42 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Excargodog
Well, guess what. That's not the last word on the subject. There is no constitutional right to fly an aircraft, and it won't take a whole lot more incidents like GermanWings to get legislation passed in much the same dogmatic way the 1500 hour rule got passed. There are a fair number of people in the FAA that would like it passed now.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...health-records

One big incident will get HIPPA amended. Just like your right to avoid self incrimination gets trumped by random and targeted DOT drug testing, it may become a condition of the job.
Umm, we’re talking about calling in sick and being harassed by the company not the sharing of medical records and mental health. Who said anything about a constitutional right to fly a plane?
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Old 02-10-2019 | 09:37 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Skyward
Umm, we’re talking about calling in sick and being harassed by the company not the sharing of medical records and mental health. Who said anything about a constitutional right to fly a plane?
I did. You don’t have one. And loss of personal privacy and freedom as a condition of flying even as a passenger is a given for every person we fly and for those crew randomly selected as the sacrificial animals for known crew member. And for crew members who get hit with random (or directed) DOT drug checks.

Inappropriate or fraudulent use of sick leave by crew members is a valid concern for both the union and management, while concealment of medical problems is a concern to the FAA and general public. If we aren’t willing to address these problems on a cooperative basis, ultimately they will be addressed on a dogmatic one.
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Old 02-11-2019 | 04:47 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Flight Deck Ape
Every one of us always has a doctor’s note in our possession . Each time you get your medical your AME (a medical doctor) signed his name on that document. The FAR’s referenced on that document state that you cannot fly in a medically deficient state. Federal law associated with the possession of a FAA medical permits you on an individual basis to determine your fitness for flight.

If your company ever asks you for a doctor’s note just send them a copy of your medical signed by your AME and remind them that they already have your “doctor’s note” on file.
The above is all true. What you omit is the company is paying you not to work during the times you are sick. That changes the equation legally and gives the company many rights. Sick verification has been held as legal in the courts many times. If you are willing to not be paid while sick your argument might work.
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Old 02-11-2019 | 05:53 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by TiredSoul
Doesn’t matter if you work for Walmart or United, people scam the system.
And that is the truth.
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Old 02-11-2019 | 06:29 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by sailingfun
The above is all true. What you omit is the company is paying you not to work during the times you are sick. That changes the equation legally and gives the company many rights. Sick verification has been held as legal in the courts many times. If you are willing to not be paid while sick your argument might work.
Yup. The reason they have thresholds for harassment is because there are enough people out there who would abuse the privilege, most especially on major holidays. Unlike walmart and starbucks, where business still goes on with fewer staff, our operations come to a very dramatic and very expensive halt if pilots no-show (to the point where they run out of reserves).

If you're not abusing it (and everybody understands that "sick" occasionally means "personal day"), don't sweat it. Have a doc on call who can generate the note you need (my college roomate for example...).

Emails, doc notes, phone calls are not necessarily intended to be intimidating. They're necessary to lay the paper trail in the event that they do need to discipline an abuser. Remember, people who have real medical issues have a lot of FMLA available, and the company literally cannot lift a finger or so much as send an automated email when on FMLA.

Understand where the real threshold of discipline is at your company. If you're going to get near that, document a doctor visit every time you call out, so that if you have to meet with a CP you have solid proof.

If you're going to exceed the threshold of discipline, use FMLA. Literally get out of jail free. The minimum is four days, and it requires a docs certification.
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Old 02-11-2019 | 07:02 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Zard
I very much mind a doctor's note policy.

I'm not reimbursed for my time to go to the doctor, my deductible or co-pay isn't covered under this policy, and frankly, it's none of anyone's business why I wasn't well enough to sign a release. I have enough experience to know when I'm fit to fly and when I am not. Not every time that I am unfit to fly requires me to go to a germ factory doctor's office just so she can tell me to drink more fluids and get some more rest.

Sick call is an earned benefit governed by each union's CBA. Removing language like that which requires doctor's notes or any kind of disciplinary action for x number of calls is something for the union to aim for while times are good and to hold the line on when they ain't so good.
Bingo. It’s the FAA that puts the burden on me to decide fitness for flight. It’s an earned benefit as previously stated and quite frankly none of the company's damn business on why I was unfit to fly. Getting in a fight with your wife, worrying about a child’s situation, death of a family member or friend, etc., could all be reasons why I’m not fit to sign the release that day. NONE OF THE COMPANY’S BUSINESS.
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