ULCC or American?
02-09-2020 | 07:29 PM
#21
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From: Happy
So with ULCC captains maxing out at 270/hr now (plus everything over 82 hours paying 125%), plus 15% DC, doubling in size based on firm orders and upgrades being at around 2/3 years at Spirit / Frontier i wouldn’t be so sure about going to a legacy just to go to a legacy. I would circle back to this discussion in a few years when the economy is not so hot.
02-09-2020 | 08:55 PM
#23
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AA would do well if fuel spiked they have one of the youngest fleets on the market, something that cuts demand would be far worse for them because they have big lease or finance payments attached to many of those aircraft. While a legacy should probably never have less than 5 billion in debt (it makes them too vulnerable to someone buying the company with a loan against the company IE 1980's NWA).
A good recent example of this is when AA announced new 5x BOS-RDU service a few weeks ago, Spirit just canceled theirs after starting it in Jan 2019.
02-11-2020 | 04:11 PM
#24
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From: baller, shot caller
I've had that exact same commute and it is not fun. That drive is brutal if you have to do it and I would assume you can forget about sitting reserve at home. I did it for one year, purely for financial reasons, and then I moved to a base considering I had and still have over 30 years before punching out for good. Best of luck to you, but if it ain't broke then think long and hard before trying to "fix" it.
02-11-2020 | 05:53 PM
#25
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From: guppy CA
AA hands down.
How many former AA pilots are at your ULCC? How many pilots have left your ULCC for AA? I've flown at UA with a lot of former ULCC pilots - they are extremely happy with their decision. The level of support by the entire organization is so much better at UA (and I'm sure all other legacies) than at any ULCC.
If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't hesitate to go for AA.
How many former AA pilots are at your ULCC? How many pilots have left your ULCC for AA? I've flown at UA with a lot of former ULCC pilots - they are extremely happy with their decision. The level of support by the entire organization is so much better at UA (and I'm sure all other legacies) than at any ULCC.
If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't hesitate to go for AA.
02-11-2020 | 06:06 PM
#26
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From: baller, shot caller
AA hands down.
How many former AA pilots are at your ULCC? How many pilots have left your ULCC for AA? I've flown at UA with a lot of former ULCC pilots - they are extremely happy with their decision. The level of support by the entire organization is so much better at UA (and I'm sure all other legacies) than at any ULCC.
If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't hesitate to go for AA.
How many former AA pilots are at your ULCC? How many pilots have left your ULCC for AA? I've flown at UA with a lot of former ULCC pilots - they are extremely happy with their decision. The level of support by the entire organization is so much better at UA (and I'm sure all other legacies) than at any ULCC.
If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't hesitate to go for AA.
Live. In. Base. (or nearby)
02-11-2020 | 06:12 PM
#27
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From: Happy
Exactly what you said ^.
Andy to answer your question, 15 guys I flown with as an FO who where furloughed legacy (twice for the UAL ones). Not one took the recall. Then again in fairness most of them are in their 50s now and making well over 300 living in base. How many fos have left you ask ? 3 that I know before the new contract. 1 after.
As far as the support you speak of goes, it won’t do you much good when the music stops and numbers 11000-14000 get furloughed. Honestly I think most people will be fine who got hired last few years at any legacy or (U)LCC. But I wouldn’t put my eggs in the legacy basket right before the music stops. Then again that’s me. With 30 years left and almost half the list below me I’m happy
Andy to answer your question, 15 guys I flown with as an FO who where furloughed legacy (twice for the UAL ones). Not one took the recall. Then again in fairness most of them are in their 50s now and making well over 300 living in base. How many fos have left you ask ? 3 that I know before the new contract. 1 after.
As far as the support you speak of goes, it won’t do you much good when the music stops and numbers 11000-14000 get furloughed. Honestly I think most people will be fine who got hired last few years at any legacy or (U)LCC. But I wouldn’t put my eggs in the legacy basket right before the music stops. Then again that’s me. With 30 years left and almost half the list below me I’m happy
02-11-2020 | 06:31 PM
#29
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From: guppy CA
As far as the support you speak of goes, it won’t do you much good when the music stops and numbers 11000-14000 get furloughed. Honestly I think most people will be fine who got hired last few years at any legacy or (U)LCC. But I wouldn’t put my eggs in the legacy basket right before the music stops. Then again that’s me. With 30 years left and almost half the list below me I’m happy
But that's always a fun card to play to scare pilots below you to not make the jump to a better life at a legacy.
02-11-2020 | 06:38 PM
#30
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From: Happy
Having personally been furloughed twice at United, I seriously doubt large furloughs at legacies even with a major downturn. And unless it's a really major downturn, I don't see any furloughs happening at legacies during the next recession - there are just too many retirements. Sure, some open time will probably dry up and line pay values will probably decrease slightly. But furloughs at AA, UA, DAL? Unlikely.
But that's always a fun card to play to scare pilots below you to not make the jump to a better life at a legacy.
But that's always a fun card to play to scare pilots below you to not make the jump to a better life at a legacy.
I would encourage pilots both above and below me to go somewhere else if they believe it would make them happier ! Once you get to an income point where most of us are you finally start realizing (well a lot of us sadly do not) that bigger and more is not always better. Happiness, QOL and family is the only thing that matters. this being said I think it would have to get really bad especially with all the retirements happening no matter what for big numbers to get furloughed. Let’s hope that never happens for all of our friends.
and the better life comment I’m not going to comment on because I doubt you know our work rules so to claim it’s steps below yours .. ok, genuinely happy for you
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