What’s changed about Southwest since? You’ve basically described it as it is now.
No frills. Kind of their thing.

 

Southwest was the first LCC ... And, their business model hasn't changed.

 

Except for the "Low Cost" part of the LCC...I like SWA, but they haven't been "low cost" for a decade. Not a coincidence you have to go to their website to book flights..

 

If you think the only difference between the legacies and the ULCCs is the pilot pay, you don't know anything about how ULCCs operate. Our CASM is less than half that of the legacies. Both Frontier and Spirit are well below 6 cents.

 

And managed to make $$$ every year, or darn close. I suppose my point is the LCC model seems "to work."

Buy an economy ticket on the Big-3 and you are getting the functional equivalent of LCC anyway. Bag fees, change penalties, cramped seats, no food, board last, etc. For what ? some frequent flier points ?

 

You obviously don't commute. If you're suggesting that the seat pitch and recline (for starters) on the big 3 and ULCCs are the same, you haven't ridden on both products. There's a reason why ULCCs' CASM is lower than the big 3 - seat density. Shove 3 or 4 more rows of seats on a plane and you instantly lower CASM.
The last boarding group for the big 3 is basic economy; as close an equivalent to an ULCC offering the big 3 have, except even basic economy gets free drinks and snacks on the big 3.
Big 3 and ULCCs do not deliver the same product. Even basic economy on the big 3 is more comfortable than F9 and NK.

 

It is true that American’s basic economy does offer a whopping 2” more seat pitch and a “free” bag of mini pretzels. But it just proves the model of the ULCC; seat density. IF basic economy of the big 3 have as much room as the rest of the plane, at a cheaper price, you’re selling a cheaper seat without the benefit of “seat density” to help lower CASM. Even the free bag of mini pretzels have a cost on CASM/RASM.

It isn’t like those seats would have been empty on American if not made into basic economy. Couldn’t it be argued that those seats are being sold for less profit, clearly affecting RASM, while trying to compete with the ULCC? It’s a “cutting off your nose to spite your face” scenario; planes are leaving full at all airlines now, why airlines are discounting seats on their planes that otherwise could be sold as regular economy, it doesn’t make sense without the benefit of the entire ULCC business model in action.

Big 3 carriers are having to adjust to ULCC by picking up parts of their model. Basic economy,
paid checked bags, and change fees are examples. AA was the first legacy to charge for checked bags in 2008, after Spirit did it in 2007. The Big 3 and ULCC might not offer the same product, but as the Big 3 continues to dilute their economy product, it won’t be long until they are there.

 

Do two inches of extra pitch matter when the seat in front of you has a large pocket stuffed with magazines and airline paraphernalia sticking out of it while some sort of power strip eats into the space under the seat?

No. No they do not. Basic economy isn’t a fun fit for anyone. For now the Big 3 can play their reindeer games and try to match the ULCC’s on price and destination. But we won’t be in the hottest economy this country has seen in living memory forever.

 

Ummm... okay. I’ve been on the 73-800 and 900s at each of the Big 3. It is NOT comfortable. Not even close.

The last year I bought 2 tickets. First time in forever. I wasn’t Basic Economy. AA I still boarded last (basically) and the overall experience outside of my free soda and pretzels was almost no different than an LCC.

My experience on United was noticeable better, even despite a middle seat. Both were on 73s. I was far more comfortable in my middle seat than in an aisle on AA. Again same exact plane.

Also the basic economy is kinda becoming a joke. I buy my Gf tickets sometimes when we’re traveling. I usually use AA as they have the most frequency out of my home airport.

It’s funny how many times the Basic Economy is literally within $30-40 of a normal ticket. When you think about the fact she’s gonna get hit up $50 round trip for her rollerboard, I just buy her a normal ticket.

Ive seen this scenario multiple times now. I’m sure some routes/days it’s substantial, but I have yet to see some earth shattering difference between BE and regular fares.

 

Lets face it, if someone is buying a basic economy on the big 3, or a ticket on Spirit / Frontier they are not looking for comfort. They want to cheapest price. I’ve seen many passenger fly an extra segment, and add 5 hrs to their travel time to save $20. don’t think they are looking for comfort at that point.