Seattle residents angry at Boeing for moving
10-13-2020, 10:05 AM
#22
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Originally Posted by iahflyr
Please move all the low skilled, low paying factory assembly jobs to South Carolina. Just be sure to keep the high skill, high paying management and engineering jobs in Seattle (which they are).
10-13-2020, 10:10 AM
#23
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Originally Posted by Back2future
It just warms my heart to see all the schadenfreude here. Who wouldn't celebrate the loss of good unionized jobs to a right to work state because it owns the libs?
10-13-2020, 10:39 AM
#24
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Originally Posted by velosnow
My thoughts exactly, so much for supporting our unionized brothers & sisters out there. Sure hope some of you cheer your own management's moves when it comes time to close your domicile, reduce flying or ask for concessions.
10-13-2020, 10:58 AM
#25
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Originally Posted by Hedley
Where does it say that the jobs created in SC won’t be union jobs? The public support for unions is definitely declining in this country, but formation or membership in a union is still very much allowed, just not required.
10-13-2020, 11:40 AM
#26
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Originally Posted by Hedley
Where does it say that the jobs created in SC won’t be union jobs? The public support for unions is definitely declining in this country, but formation or membership in a union is still very much allowed, just not required.
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Boeing, however, says pay at the two sites cannot be compared — even with cost of living factored in — because the job markets are so different. The aerospace giant says the IAM is misleading workers in an attempt to gain support for a union at the North Charleston shop.
“The machinists union continues to try to divide our team by suggesting that our teammates are underpaid,” according to a statement Friday by Boeing South Carolina. “They reference wages paid in a market 3,000 miles away, trying to create the impression that unionizing in South Carolina would yield a compensation windfall. Despite what the union is saying, that is simply not true and their own contracts in the region are proof.”
Connie Kelliher, spokeswoman for IAM District No. 751, which represents the Everett workers, said it shouldn’t matter which side of the country workers are located.
“Although the work performed is 3,000 miles apart, it requires the same skill and ability to be successful,” Kelliher said. “These skilled employees deserve the same consideration for wages, benefits and working conditions that others receive for the same work, no matter where they live.”
Kelliher said starting wages for IAM workers in Washington state are close to South Carolina, but “after six years with raises every six months our members in Puget Sound reach the maximum pay rate that is substantially more than what South Carolina Boeing offers.”
Maximum wages in Washington state range from $19.26 per hour to $45.39 per hour, depending on a worker’s pay grade.
Labor costs in the West historically have been higher than in the South, although the gap is narrowing, according to federal Bureau of Labor Statistics reports. In 2005, workers in the West had wages that were 17.1 percent higher than in the South. By 2015, that difference was 12.5 percent.
“The machinists union continues to try to divide our team by suggesting that our teammates are underpaid,” according to a statement Friday by Boeing South Carolina. “They reference wages paid in a market 3,000 miles away, trying to create the impression that unionizing in South Carolina would yield a compensation windfall. Despite what the union is saying, that is simply not true and their own contracts in the region are proof.”
Connie Kelliher, spokeswoman for IAM District No. 751, which represents the Everett workers, said it shouldn’t matter which side of the country workers are located.
“Although the work performed is 3,000 miles apart, it requires the same skill and ability to be successful,” Kelliher said. “These skilled employees deserve the same consideration for wages, benefits and working conditions that others receive for the same work, no matter where they live.”
Kelliher said starting wages for IAM workers in Washington state are close to South Carolina, but “after six years with raises every six months our members in Puget Sound reach the maximum pay rate that is substantially more than what South Carolina Boeing offers.”
Maximum wages in Washington state range from $19.26 per hour to $45.39 per hour, depending on a worker’s pay grade.
Labor costs in the West historically have been higher than in the South, although the gap is narrowing, according to federal Bureau of Labor Statistics reports. In 2005, workers in the West had wages that were 17.1 percent higher than in the South. By 2015, that difference was 12.5 percent.
Also, here it is, on Boeings own website:
https://weareboeingsc.com/our-union-position/
The IAM wants to take us back to the old way of doing things. We’ve got a better thing going at Boeing South Carolina. Let’s keep moving forward. Let’s face challenges standing side-by-side, not sitting across from each other in union negotiations. Let’s keep getting things done without the divisiveness.
Let’s protect what we’ve built at Boeing South Carolina.
The schadenfreude is amazing. Union members cheering Boeing leaving a blue state that has worker protections and that is unionized. Cut off your nose to spite your face, as long as it owns the libs!
10-13-2020, 11:53 AM
#27
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Originally Posted by Hedley
Where does it say that the jobs created in SC won’t be union jobs? The public support for unions is definitely declining in this country, but formation or membership in a union is still very much allowed, just not required.
Unionizing in a southern state with millions of dollars in Boeing's war chest along with hiring professional union busting firms? Good luck with that. From the 2017 organizing effort;
"If they get a foothold in a plant that size, that may help in efforts to expand beyond that location," South Carolina Manufacturers Alliance president Lewis Gossett said before the vote. "I don’t know a single business person that wants a union to be successful there."
The alliance, an industry coalition in Columbia, ran television spots opposing the union on local stations in the weeks before the vote, including during the Super Bowl. Residents say TV, radio and billboard advertising has been ubiquitous.
Labor's weakness in South Carolina is partly due to intense opposition from local politicians. Former governor Nikki Haley, now Trump's ambassador to the United Nations, said she opposed firms with unionized labor opening facilities in her state, even though new factories would presumably mean more work for her constituents."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...have-a-chance/
10-13-2020, 12:19 PM
#28
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Originally Posted by velosnow
I assume you've never been a part of an organizing effort? It's not like you can just flip the switch and voila! Union. Nope.
Unionizing in a southern state with millions of dollars in Boeing's war chest along with hiring professional union busting firms? Good luck with that. From the 2017 organizing effort;
"If they get a foothold in a plant that size, that may help in efforts to expand beyond that location," South Carolina Manufacturers Alliance president Lewis Gossett said before the vote. "I don’t know a single business person that wants a union to be successful there."
The alliance, an industry coalition in Columbia, ran television spots opposing the union on local stations in the weeks before the vote, including during the Super Bowl. Residents say TV, radio and billboard advertising has been ubiquitous.
Labor's weakness in South Carolina is partly due to intense opposition from local politicians. Former governor Nikki Haley, now Trump's ambassador to the United Nations, said she opposed firms with unionized labor opening facilities in her state, even though new factories would presumably mean more work for her constituents."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...have-a-chance/
Unionizing in a southern state with millions of dollars in Boeing's war chest along with hiring professional union busting firms? Good luck with that. From the 2017 organizing effort;
"If they get a foothold in a plant that size, that may help in efforts to expand beyond that location," South Carolina Manufacturers Alliance president Lewis Gossett said before the vote. "I don’t know a single business person that wants a union to be successful there."
The alliance, an industry coalition in Columbia, ran television spots opposing the union on local stations in the weeks before the vote, including during the Super Bowl. Residents say TV, radio and billboard advertising has been ubiquitous.
Labor's weakness in South Carolina is partly due to intense opposition from local politicians. Former governor Nikki Haley, now Trump's ambassador to the United Nations, said she opposed firms with unionized labor opening facilities in her state, even though new factories would presumably mean more work for her constituents."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...have-a-chance/
Last edited by Hedley; 10-13-2020 at 12:33 PM.
10-13-2020, 12:57 PM
#29
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Posts: 1,170
Originally Posted by Hedley
I’ve been involved with getting a union on the property. I never said that it was fast, there is a process to follow and then a vote. You accurately cover the political opposition to unions, but you are not taking into account the local cultural opposition. It could be that they don’t want a union. I live in a very rural part of the country. People here are very hard working, self sufficient, and conservative. They seem almost offended when they find out that I’m in a union and that I don’t look at it as a bad thing or necessary evil. They don’t want a union telling them how many hours they can work, when they can work, or how many breaks that they need to have. They have also watched businesses (employers) leave areas where city and state governments have increased the cost of doing business through high taxes and regulatory hurdles. They want no part of it. Don’t shoot the messenger, but we look at unions through a biased viewpoint. Most people, especially in the south and Midwest, see things differently.
And it isn't governments chasing businesses out of town, it's the unpleasant side of capitalism at work pleasing the shareholders at their own employee's expense. Regulations and taxes are a part of life as are worker's rights, making profits and running a successful business. These things aren't mutually exclusive.
10-13-2020, 01:05 PM
#30
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Posts: 4,417
Originally Posted by velosnow
I'm actually from small town Midwest as it were and while generally conservative it was quite a union friendly place. So I understand that side of it as well, though our neighbors and co-workers saw the value in unions. So the small town argument just quite won't work on its own.
And it isn't governments chasing businesses out of town, it's the unpleasant side of capitalism at work pleasing the shareholders at their own employee's expense. Regulations and taxes are a part of life as are worker's rights, making profits and running a successful business. These things aren't mutually exclusive.
And it isn't governments chasing businesses out of town, it's the unpleasant side of capitalism at work pleasing the shareholders at their own employee's expense. Regulations and taxes are a part of life as are worker's rights, making profits and running a successful business. These things aren't mutually exclusive.
while I agree Boeing probably made the move because of their detest for unions, there are plenty of things states can do to make doing business there undesirable.
just to clarify, What Boeing is doing is classic union busting so they can save money for stock buybacks and dealing with their MAX fiasco (also caused by shady business practices). But states can absolutely drive business away
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