ALPA: Don't raise retirement age
06-01-2022, 06:02 AM
#101
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,289
Originally Posted by symbian simian
I do think better FAA training record keeping and access would have done more. Just like the PF in Atlas crash, this individual had a long history of failures he managed to keep hidden from several employers. Being in a regional with training and checking events could weed these people out in a way that being a bad flight instructor or banner tower that manages to survive won't. Will they weed them out? I think that is the question...
06-01-2022, 06:04 AM
#102
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,289
Originally Posted by Jdub2
Renslow was hired at Colgan with 618 total time. Ergo, the ATP rule would have precluded his being hired at Colgan. Had he been subjected to the ATP rule, he would have needed close to 900 more hours. He would have had many more opportunities to learn and command a smaller aircraft before commanding a transport category aircraft.
Very entrepreneurial of GIA... turned seat 0F into a revenue seat.
06-01-2022, 06:29 AM
#103
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Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 504
Originally Posted by rickair7777
He spent a lot of those 618 hours at GIA, so pay-to-play seat meat.
Very entrepreneurial of GIA... turned seat 0F into a revenue seat.
Very entrepreneurial of GIA... turned seat 0F into a revenue seat.
06-01-2022, 07:48 AM
#104
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Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Baja Vermont
Posts: 5,177
Originally Posted by rickair7777
That happened at multiple airlines (majors) around the 1960's. It was also a very different era from a safety perspective. Most of those noob also got to fly the panel for a while too, for whatever that's worth.
06-01-2022, 04:50 PM
#105
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Joined APC: Jul 2014
Posts: 261
Originally Posted by Fat Old Tired
If a younger person asks me about becoming an airline pilot, I generally steer them clear of the career and advise to do other work. From lousy pay through years of "dues paying", a sensitive industry to economic conditions, and too much time away from loved ones, the career is just not worth it.
It may be a good fit for some, but I find the majority of young people I have spoken too would last in the industry. It's just not worth it even if you like flying.
It may be a good fit for some, but I find the majority of young people I have spoken too would last in the industry. It's just not worth it even if you like flying.
Even with boom time hiring, the reality is "great job, lousy career, terrible investment."
06-02-2022, 05:21 AM
#106
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Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Semi-Retired...
Posts: 3,128
Originally Posted by SonicFlyer
You are REALLY bad at math.
Except that the unions wouldn't let that happen. And even if the 1500 hour rule was lowered, and the retirement age were extended, that would only ease the problem, not solve it long term.
Correlation doesn't equal causation.Maybe, but it has never been substantiated with numbers. So it's nothing more than a thin justification used by politicians, bureaucrats, and union hacks.
Except that the unions wouldn't let that happen. And even if the 1500 hour rule was lowered, and the retirement age were extended, that would only ease the problem, not solve it long term.
Correlation doesn't equal causation.Maybe, but it has never been substantiated with numbers. So it's nothing more than a thin justification used by politicians, bureaucrats, and union hacks.
point being, anybody thinking a union can prevent concessions over the long term hasn’t been paying attention. They pay what they have to to keep seats filled.
06-02-2022, 07:15 AM
#107
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Joined APC: Sep 2009
Posts: 595
Originally Posted by Cujo665
If unions can stop wage concessions, please explain why a widebody CA makes only 65% of the purchasing power they had in 1980? Please explain why regional pilots ended up on food stamps and public assistance after 20+ years of concessionary negotiating after deregulation? Oh, and if you look at wage charts alongside new hire experience level you’ll see that as they reduced pay, working conditions and benefits, they continually were forced to hire less and less qualified applicants. They drove people away from wanting to become pilots. They created their own pilot shortage.
point being, anybody thinking a union can prevent concessions over the long term hasn’t been paying attention. They pay what they have to to keep seats filled.
point being, anybody thinking a union can prevent concessions over the long term hasn’t been paying attention. They pay what they have to to keep seats filled.
This sonic guy is not even in the ball park. He's started with an end result and continues to argue to that end, facts be damned.
Arguing with some folks is like wrestling with a pig in mud, eventually you realize that the pig just wants to get dirty.
06-03-2022, 10:01 AM
#108
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 3,595
Originally Posted by Cujo665
If unions can stop wage concessions, please explain why a widebody CA makes only 65% of the purchasing power they had in 1980? Please explain why regional pilots ended up on food stamps and public assistance after 20+ years of concessionary negotiating after deregulation? Oh, and if you look at wage charts alongside new hire experience level you’ll see that as they reduced pay, working conditions and benefits, they continually were forced to hire less and less qualified applicants. They drove people away from wanting to become pilots. They created their own pilot shortage.
point being, anybody thinking a union can prevent concessions over the long term hasn’t been paying attention. They pay what they have to to keep seats filled.
point being, anybody thinking a union can prevent concessions over the long term hasn’t been paying attention. They pay what they have to to keep seats filled.
06-03-2022, 12:19 PM
#109
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,273
Originally Posted by Cujo665
If unions can stop wage concessions, please explain why a widebody CA makes only 65% of the purchasing power they had in 1980? Please explain why regional pilots ended up on food stamps and public assistance after 20+ years of concessionary negotiating after deregulation? Oh, and if you look at wage charts alongside new hire experience level you’ll see that as they reduced pay, working conditions and benefits, they continually were forced to hire less and less qualified applicants. They drove people away from wanting to become pilots. They created their own pilot shortage.
point being, anybody thinking a union can prevent concessions over the long term hasn’t been paying attention. They pay what they have to to keep seats filled.
point being, anybody thinking a union can prevent concessions over the long term hasn’t been paying attention. They pay what they have to to keep seats filled.
06-03-2022, 06:52 PM
#110
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Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: On the bus,seat 0A
Posts: 3,228
Originally Posted by sailingfun
You are probably comparing straight hourly wages without any consideration toward soft money generated by all the work rule changes. A widebody CA in 1980 earning 120,000 a year would need to make 420,000 a year now. That’s easily done at Delta and I suspect American and United. In fact at Delta that’s probably well below the average Widebody CA pay. It’s not difficult to crack 600,000 and some pilots have exceeded 900,000 in a year. If you compare it to 2019 when the current round of contracts got put on ice by covid we were solidly ahead of inflation.
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