Youngest Delta Air Lines Pilot
06-22-2007, 01:25 PM
#31
Freightmama!
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 2,880
A320, good post. In addition, Deez340, that may be a fact at DAL but there are many airlines where plenty of white males get hired with less time than other white males with more time because of connections. In any case, one thing I do know for a FACT is that every single white male that I know that has made a 100% effort to find a good aviation job has done so. I never heard them making commentary about how everyone else "less deserving" was hired over them. Instead, they focused on themselves and were successful. Many of them are at FedEx, UPS, SWA, CAL, etc. That being said, you can be a bump on a log complaining that every female and minority "took your job" or you can focus your energy on networking, going to job fairs and getting that same job. I am sure I can guess which person out of the two would get the job.
P.S. Can there be one thread that involves a female pilot that doesn't end up with the usual childish commentary? You all sound like a bunch of whiny babies not professional pilots.
P.S. Can there be one thread that involves a female pilot that doesn't end up with the usual childish commentary? You all sound like a bunch of whiny babies not professional pilots.
06-22-2007, 01:27 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: 757/767
Posts: 890
Originally Posted by Freightpuppy
No, as much as it would be "cool" to see a female president, I will not vote for that bleeding heart liberal democrat.
06-22-2007, 01:29 PM
#33
Freightmama!
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 2,880
Originally Posted by Deez340
Although I'm having trouble getting excited about any of the others either.
06-22-2007, 01:40 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: 757/767
Posts: 890
[quote=Freightpuppy;183952]A320, good post. In addition, Deez340, that may be a fact at DAL but there are many airlines where plenty of white males get hired with less time than other white males with more time because of connections. In any case, one thing I do know for a FACT is that every single white male that I know that has made a 100% effort to find a good aviation job has done so. I never heard them making commentary about how everyone else "less deserving" was hired over them. Instead, they focused on themselves and were successful. Many of them are at FedEx, UPS, SWA, CAL, etc. That being said, you can be a bump on a log complaining that every female and minority "took your job" or you can focus your energy on networking, going to job fairs and getting that same job. I am sure I can guess which person out of the two would get the job.
Again, I was just regurgitating data, not emotion, to support a comment I had made. I'm not on some anti-female campaign. Far from it. All I was saying was that in order for you to think it's not easier for a, albeit qualified, young women to get a coveted airline job than a similarly qualified/aged young man you must abandon all facts and reality. I'm not complaining. Like I said (i think on some other thread) the best, most professional FO i ever had was a Woman and a very young one at that. If your a woman you have an advantage. Enjoy it and don't abuse it.
Again, I was just regurgitating data, not emotion, to support a comment I had made. I'm not on some anti-female campaign. Far from it. All I was saying was that in order for you to think it's not easier for a, albeit qualified, young women to get a coveted airline job than a similarly qualified/aged young man you must abandon all facts and reality. I'm not complaining. Like I said (i think on some other thread) the best, most professional FO i ever had was a Woman and a very young one at that. If your a woman you have an advantage. Enjoy it and don't abuse it.
06-22-2007, 05:02 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: WB Bunkie
Posts: 1,246
Originally Posted by A320fumes
Don't sweat it puppy, read on......
SAABaroowski actually makes some very good post, even though said quotes indicate otherwise.
SAABaroowski, EVERY intelligent person in the world should be able to agree that yes, affirmative action is not fair. We are in agreement. Now, if you don't mind listening to someone who you might perceive as a beneficiary of AA, I'd like to explain why your statement, although correct, is not complete. FAIR is BullSH!T. Once you can accept this, you are more than 90% there. AA was created to level the playing field or right some of the wrongs that were perpetrated by people who are long gone from this board and for the most part, from society today. WASP males enjoyed a vast advantage over women or people with color, for about 400 years in America and 2,000 years in the 10,000 years of human, so called "civilization". Truth of the matter is, life has never and will never be fair. Your best chance at achieving fair is to live a long time, realize that you don't have monopoly on truth and try to learn something everyday. If you do that, chances are your children will have a brighter future than you. As a young white male, assumption "ski", you don't face nearly as many intrinsic obstacles, specifically in aviation, as a non-"ski"s, unless you aspire to be a rapper or professional athlete. Not saying that life as a "ski" is easy, I'm sure you worked very hard to be where you are. You seem to be an "articulate" pilot aspirant. Based on your post, I'd hire you, I do that in the military. Women and minorities encompass less than 2% of the industry and less than 10% of new-hires. If HR decides that they need to hire 20% minorities, unlikely but, there is nothing you can do about that. What you do need to worry about is not being that white-dude who is the ninth out of ten, because, unfortunately, a non-white male and a white female have those other two slots on lock. That's terrible for Messrs 9 and 10 white. But it's probably more unfair for #2 non-white and female, because they'll get the same rejection letter as 9 and 10. Who was the most qualified? I'm humble enough to say that we'll never know. I think that if you stay above # 7, you won't have a problem. I a little time, providing you're not in the lowest 20%, you could have some input. If it's @ CAL, I'll be glad to hire the most qualified applicants with you. I know tons of #2's that I'd love to get jobs, but that's not the world we live in, is it? My advice, be the best you can be, and let #7"ski" worry about A/A. Based on your post, I think you're well above #7. Godspeed!
SAABaroowski actually makes some very good post, even though said quotes indicate otherwise.
SAABaroowski, EVERY intelligent person in the world should be able to agree that yes, affirmative action is not fair. We are in agreement. Now, if you don't mind listening to someone who you might perceive as a beneficiary of AA, I'd like to explain why your statement, although correct, is not complete. FAIR is BullSH!T. Once you can accept this, you are more than 90% there. AA was created to level the playing field or right some of the wrongs that were perpetrated by people who are long gone from this board and for the most part, from society today. WASP males enjoyed a vast advantage over women or people with color, for about 400 years in America and 2,000 years in the 10,000 years of human, so called "civilization". Truth of the matter is, life has never and will never be fair. Your best chance at achieving fair is to live a long time, realize that you don't have monopoly on truth and try to learn something everyday. If you do that, chances are your children will have a brighter future than you. As a young white male, assumption "ski", you don't face nearly as many intrinsic obstacles, specifically in aviation, as a non-"ski"s, unless you aspire to be a rapper or professional athlete. Not saying that life as a "ski" is easy, I'm sure you worked very hard to be where you are. You seem to be an "articulate" pilot aspirant. Based on your post, I'd hire you, I do that in the military. Women and minorities encompass less than 2% of the industry and less than 10% of new-hires. If HR decides that they need to hire 20% minorities, unlikely but, there is nothing you can do about that. What you do need to worry about is not being that white-dude who is the ninth out of ten, because, unfortunately, a non-white male and a white female have those other two slots on lock. That's terrible for Messrs 9 and 10 white. But it's probably more unfair for #2 non-white and female, because they'll get the same rejection letter as 9 and 10. Who was the most qualified? I'm humble enough to say that we'll never know. I think that if you stay above # 7, you won't have a problem. I a little time, providing you're not in the lowest 20%, you could have some input. If it's @ CAL, I'll be glad to hire the most qualified applicants with you. I know tons of #2's that I'd love to get jobs, but that's not the world we live in, is it? My advice, be the best you can be, and let #7"ski" worry about A/A. Based on your post, I think you're well above #7. Godspeed!
Great Post. Complaining is like a rocking chair, it gives you something to do but it won't get you anywhere.
Personally, I like diversity in a pilot group. I get pretty tired having the same conversation with white, conservative captains about how he hates liberals and the government is stealing from him. Cruise is a great time to open your mind and listen to what others have to say. Usually you take it with a grain of salt but after being barraged with the same said BS its nice to talk to liberals, women, people with different ethnicities than myself.
I can't wait for election time
06-22-2007, 06:47 PM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: B767 First Officer
Posts: 160
Come fly out of NYC.....most of us are liberal wackos! 
I do so enjoy watching all of us white males who have basically own this industry since its inception get our collective panties in a bunch when a woman gets hired. Truly pathetic. The nice part is that once you get on with your goal company, this little discussion rarely comes up.
I do so enjoy watching all of us white males who have basically own this industry since its inception get our collective panties in a bunch when a woman gets hired. Truly pathetic. The nice part is that once you get on with your goal company, this little discussion rarely comes up.
06-22-2007, 06:50 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: 757/767
Posts: 890
Originally Posted by duvie
Great Post. Complaining is like a rocking chair, it gives you something to do but it won't get you anywhere.
Personally, I like diversity in a pilot group. I get pretty tired having the same conversation with white, conservative captains about how he hates liberals and the government is stealing from him. Cruise is a great time to open your mind and listen to what others have to say. Usually you take it with a grain of salt but after being barraged with the same said BS its nice to talk to liberals, women, people with different ethnicities than myself.
I can't wait for election time
Personally, I like diversity in a pilot group. I get pretty tired having the same conversation with white, conservative captains about how he hates liberals and the government is stealing from him. Cruise is a great time to open your mind and listen to what others have to say. Usually you take it with a grain of salt but after being barraged with the same said BS its nice to talk to liberals, women, people with different ethnicities than myself.
I can't wait for election time
06-22-2007, 06:51 PM
#38
Freightmama!
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 2,880
Originally Posted by Deez340
[deez340 183952] All I was saying was that in order for you to think it's not easier for a, albeit qualified, young women to get a coveted airline job than a similarly qualified/aged young man you must abandon all facts and reality.
All that being said, I am outta this thread. I am sick of repeating myself every few months.
06-22-2007, 06:59 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: 757/767
Posts: 890
Originally Posted by Freightpuppy
Well, we can agree to disagree then. I've met more than my fair share of whiteys that got great jobs with less experience than some women with more. As a matter of fact, when I was at a commuter some years ago, we had preferential hiring at our sister company. Guys were getting hired with a few thousand hours less than me. I never even got to interview so if it's so much easier for women to get a job, can you please tell me why I was never even called for an interview? I'd really like to know because I still wonder sometimes. I also know women that got great jobs with less time than some guys I know. It goes both ways but of course we only hear about all the women.
All that being said, I am outta this thread. I am sick of repeating myself every few months.
All that being said, I am outta this thread. I am sick of repeating myself every few months.
i was enjoying the banter. I will concede the point that good internal contacts normally trumps any AA influences.
06-22-2007, 07:00 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: A300 Capt
Posts: 142
I was hired at UPS when I was 24+. That was nearly 18 years ago and there were two in my class who were even younger. The sad part is none of us will ever be #1. Oh well it sure beats digging ditches.
Cheers to all.
Cheers to all.
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