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US house panel votes in age [67]

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Old 08-15-2023 | 08:15 AM
  #651  
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Originally Posted by resa
Some people should not fly part 12.
Or revise FARs. ‘They’ ought not be screwing around with any of it. ‘They’ don’t know, care nor perceive a need to. Hence the reauthorization maneuver. Non autonomous equipment currently operating mainliner service rely on extensive training, vetting, experience for their unmatched record of safe travel. Public outcry for a quick fix won’t change this reality. Better ‘they’ make progress on something more in line with familiar subject matter. Seats for bigger buttholes
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Old 08-15-2023 | 09:50 AM
  #652  
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Originally Posted by CBreezy
There isn't a shortage of pilots. You've seen the data ALPA is putting out I'm sure. The training pipeline is strong and growing.
Yes I have. Have you bothered to read what is included in the demand for pilots? It's only the 11 largest US airlines. I'm not sure if cargo's included in that data and we know for sure all non-121 operations are not included. And there's likely a whole lot of fibbing when one drills down on the numbers.
Anyone who looks at the resumes of pilots currently being hired at the majors and states that there isn't a pilot shortage is clearly OK with hiring pilots with multiple pink slips, DUIs, and other things that would previously have disqualified them from being hired.
Question: if there's no shortage of pilots, why are regionals having to close up shop in spite of decent pay rates?
Stop trying to gaslight me claiming there's no pilot shortage. It's flat out false.
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Old 08-15-2023 | 10:06 AM
  #653  
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Originally Posted by Andy
Yes I have. Have you bothered to read what is included in the demand for pilots? It's only the 11 largest US airlines. I'm not sure if cargo's included in that data and we know for sure all non-121 operations are not included. And there's likely a whole lot of fibbing when one drills down on the numbers.
Anyone who looks at the resumes of pilots currently being hired at the majors and states that there isn't a pilot shortage is clearly OK with hiring pilots with multiple pink slips, DUIs, and other things that would previously have disqualified them from being hired.
Question: if there's no shortage of pilots, why are regionals having to close up shop in spite of decent pay rates?
Stop trying to gaslight me claiming there's no pilot shortage. It's flat out false.
which regionals have closed up shop due to a lack of pilots?
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Old 08-15-2023 | 10:17 AM
  #654  
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Originally Posted by Gone Flying
which regionals have closed up shop due to a lack of pilots?
Great lakes.

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. There is a small pilot shortage, but all it’s really doing is putting places out of business that survive on an outdated business model of poverty wages and routes that only exist due to government subsidy.
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Old 08-15-2023 | 11:42 AM
  #655  
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Originally Posted by DarkSideMoon
Great lakes.

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. There is a small pilot shortage, but all it’s really doing is putting places out of business that survive on an outdated business model of poverty wages and routes that only exist due to government subsidy.
Three "conventional" jet regionals went away in 2020. If that hadn't happened something else would have had to give somewhere by now. The large regionals all have parked planes.

I think at this point the industry is trying, either consciously or by default, to band-aid the regional model for the next few years so there's something left to build on and return to bidness-as-usual after the big retirement wave is over.

If there were going to earth-shattering changes (regionals merged in house, or regional pilots granted mainline numbers) it probably would have happened by now. But they haven't done anything irreversible at this point.

Bonuses can stop on a dime, and the elevated contractual wages can be diluted over time by inflation and eventual competition between regionals as they resume the race to the bottom... they can always standup new startup regionals next decade. Today's "best regional" is next decade's liquidation fire sale.
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Old 08-15-2023 | 12:47 PM
  #656  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
Three "conventional" jet regionals went away in 2020. If that hadn't happened something else would have had to give somewhere by now. The large regionals all have parked planes.

I think at this point the industry is trying, either consciously or by default, to band-aid the regional model for the next few years so there's something left to build on and return to bidness-as-usual after the big retirement wave is over.

If there were going to earth-shattering changes (regionals merged in house, or regional pilots granted mainline numbers) it probably would have happened by now. But they haven't done anything irreversible at this point.

Bonuses can stop on a dime, and the elevated contractual wages can be diluted over time by inflation and eventual competition between regionals as they resume the race to the bottom... they can always standup new startup regionals next decade. Today's "best regional" is next decade's liquidation fire sale.
And TSA and Compass were horribly managed. TSA closed up shop because they didn't have enough captains and had to keep giving flying back to United. They eventually had enough and pulled the contract. I don't miss the exact reason why XJT closed up shop.
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Old 08-15-2023 | 01:52 PM
  #657  
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Originally Posted by CBreezy
And TSA and Compass were horribly managed. TSA closed up shop because they didn't have enough captains and had to keep giving flying back to United. They eventually had enough and pulled the contract. I don't miss the exact reason why XJT closed up shop.
My point was that if they hadn't folded the limited pool of regional pilots (committed lifers and time-building noobs) would be spread even thinner today. So there probably would have been regional liquidations in 2023 if it hadn't already happened in 2020.
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Old 08-15-2023 | 03:42 PM
  #658  
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Originally Posted by DarkSideMoon
Great lakes.

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. There is a small pilot shortage, but all it’s really doing is putting places out of business that survive on an outdated business model of poverty wages and routes that only exist due to government subsidy.
Great Lakes closed years ago because no one wanted to fly for $14,000 a year. That’s not a pilot shortage that’s a ****ty management who could not make money without poverty wages to skilled professionals.

They refused to pay market wages. If I opened an accounting firm tomorrow and only paid fully licensed accountants $14,000/year, no one would say I couldn’t recruit because there is an accountant shortage.
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Old 08-15-2023 | 06:45 PM
  #659  
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Originally Posted by Andy
Yes I have. Have you bothered to read what is included in the demand for pilots? It's only the 11 largest US airlines. I'm not sure if cargo's included in that data and we know for sure all non-121 operations are not included. And there's likely a whole lot of fibbing when one drills down on the numbers.
Anyone who looks at the resumes of pilots currently being hired at the majors and states that there isn't a pilot shortage is clearly OK with hiring pilots with multiple pink slips, DUIs, and other things that would previously have disqualified them from being hired.
Question: if there's no shortage of pilots, why are regionals having to close up shop in spite of decent pay rates?
Stop trying to gaslight me claiming there's no pilot shortage. It's flat out false.
Why are you judging by airlines? The flying public is not being denied access to air travel like they were denied toilet paper or 9mm ammo.

2023 will have just as many enplanements as 2019 or 2018 if there is demand for for it. Enplanements are not limited by supply unlike OSB plywood or vehicles were.

How can you say there is a shortage when FedEx is downgrading CAs and the majors will fly just as many people as they ever have.
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Old 08-15-2023 | 07:16 PM
  #660  
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What is happening is called up gauging. 50 seaters now being more 76 seaters. Fewer frequency on the small end. Routes now service, but less frequently, by larger aircraft. That is a result of real pilot shortage.
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