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Originally Posted by MaxQ
(Post 4026073)
It has been forgotten that at the beginning of the war, Feb. 28th, preventing Iran from developing a nuclear weapon was not one of stated reasons for attacking Iran.
That reason only was resurected days later. Initially it was: 1.To kill their leaders. 2. To destroy their military capability. 3. Be a catalyst for a successful uprising of the population. Then what? There was never anything presented as to "then what do we do?" The elimination of Iran's ability to make a a nuke only was added a few days later. After "unconditional surrenderr" no longer looked like it was eassy-peasy. Donkeys following the road first traveled by Croesus. At the start of the conflict, notice the third bullet: U.S. President Donald Trump announced the strikes in an eight-minute video posted to Truth Social shortly after operations began. He framed the action as major combat operations with these core justifications: - To defend the American people by eliminating imminent threats from the Iranian regime, described as a "vicious group of very hard, terrible people." - Iran's "menacing activities" directly endangered the U.S., U.S. troops, bases overseas, and allies. - Preventing Iran from ever acquiring a nuclear weapon — Trump reiterated that Tehran "can never have a nuclear weapon" and accused the regime of rejecting opportunities to renounce nuclear ambitions while rebuilding its program and developing long-range missiles. - Broader historical grievances: For 47 years, Iran had chanted "Death to America," supported terrorism and proxies, waged campaigns of bloodshed, and targeted the U.S. and others (referencing events like the 1979-1981 hostage crisis). |
Originally Posted by AAdvocate
(Post 4026184)
Negative. This is blatant misinformation and rewriting of history to fit a narrative.
At the start of the conflict, notice the third bullet: U.S. President Donald Trump announced the strikes in an eight-minute video posted to Truth Social shortly after operations began. He framed the action as major combat operations with these core justifications: - To defend the American people by eliminating imminent threats from the Iranian regime, described as a "vicious group of very hard, terrible people." - Iran's "menacing activities" directly endangered the U.S., U.S. troops, bases overseas, and allies. - Preventing Iran from ever acquiring a nuclear weapon — Trump reiterated that Tehran "can never have a nuclear weapon" and accused the regime of rejecting opportunities to renounce nuclear ambitions while rebuilding its program and developing long-range missiles. - Broader historical grievances: For 47 years, Iran had chanted "Death to America," supported terrorism and proxies, waged campaigns of bloodshed, and targeted the U.S. and others (referencing events like the 1979-1981 hostage crisis). Have the Iranians been actively attempting to develop nukes? Of course they have? Have they been two weeks away from that capability for the last twenty years? Almost certainly not. Are there far less disruptive ways to address the problem? Of course there are, but they’re less likely to result in the lavished praise Netanyahu and Trump so desperately seek. This whole thing is about egos. |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 4026161)
They could of course purchase them from North Korea, Pakistan or even Russia. Those nations never before would have considered a sale. Things are different now. They might even be viewed as the good guys in providing nucs to Iran to protect it from the US who currently is viewed worldwide about the same as Germany in 1940. We have radically destabilized the Middle East. We have also left ourselves dangerously exposed to additional conflicts as we have expended far more weapons than the Pentagon planned or even considered using. JASSM’s available worldwide are down to 425 from 2300 prewar. We have used between 850 and 950 cruise missiles. We procure less than 100 per year.
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Originally Posted by Extenda
(Post 4026227)
The only talk about Iran during the run up to the 2024 election was “the other side WILL start a war in Iran”. The side that was making that accusation won, and then started a war in Iran.
Honest question (because I appreciate your perspective though it differs from mine) Had the election turned out differently, and the other candidate done this exact same thing, under the exact same justifications, would your opinion be “well, I didn’t vote for her, but she’s right in this case” before arguing the same justifications for the conflict that you have been doing here on APC? I’m comfortable saying my opinion on this adventure would be the exact same: “This seems like an ill thought out idea with huge potential negative ramifications, and I wish we hadn’t done it, but I hope it turns out well” |
Yield to Tyranical Theocracy who repeatedly burns our flag and boasts how they can Contamaciously shout and chant "Death to America"?
I certainly welcome and end to the war, and its subsequent benefits to the global economy...... It always used to bother me in my youth during sports how some people who try to get in cheap shots, and if you retaliated it was often you were penalized (the original infraction often unnoticed by officials) but damnmit the MFer never tried it again. Older, wiser and competitions more pressure packed I often tolerated such cheap shots.......but is that right???? I don't really no how I feel at this point. Cognitive dissonance. |
Originally Posted by ThumbsUp
(Post 4026247)
I would have been happy had any side done this over the last 47 years. Time to close their chapter in history.
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Originally Posted by Lowslung
(Post 4026252)
We’ll be mired in the region for a decade or more trying to “close their chapter in history”, we won’t achieve the objective, and the second and third order effects will leave us worse off than when we started. How many times do you need to see this movie to know how it ends? Unbelievable the naďveté of people who should know better, but have decided to go all in on their “team’s” spin machine.
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Sounds like right now it’s an Iranian battle between the realists and the true believers. Realists know that once they reach total oil storage capability and start capping wells those oil fields will be permanently degraded - unless they get fracking technology from the Americans. True Believers will take their little speed boat and go out to engage a missile cruiser while saying it is all the will of Allah.
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Originally Posted by Lowslung
(Post 4026252)
We’ll be mired in the region for a decade or more trying to “close their chapter in history”, we won’t achieve the objective, and the second and third order effects will leave us worse off than when we started. How many times do you need to see this movie to know how it ends? Unbelievable the naďveté of people who should know better, but have decided to go all in on their “team’s” spin machine.
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Originally Posted by AAdvocate
(Post 4026184)
Negative. This is blatant misinformation and rewriting of history to fit a narrative.
At the start of the conflict, notice the third bullet: U.S. President Donald Trump announced the strikes in an eight-minute video posted to Truth Social shortly after operations began. He framed the action as major combat operations with these core justifications: - To defend the American people by eliminating imminent threats from the Iranian regime, described as a "vicious group of very hard, terrible people." - Iran's "menacing activities" directly endangered the U.S., U.S. troops, bases overseas, and allies. - Preventing Iran from ever acquiring a nuclear weapon — Trump reiterated that Tehran "can never have a nuclear weapon" and accused the regime of rejecting opportunities to renounce nuclear ambitions while rebuilding its program and developing long-range missiles. - Broader historical grievances: For 47 years, Iran had chanted "Death to America," supported terrorism and proxies, waged campaigns of bloodshed, and targeted the U.S. and others (referencing events like the 1979-1981 hostage crisis). You are correct. What I stated about when Trump first used Iranian nuke development as a justification for starting this war is objectively false. You rightly called me out on it. I Am embarrassed and should be less careless when I assert a fact. ( as opposed to conclusions drawn) Mea Culpa. |
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