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rickair7777 05-12-2026 07:34 AM


Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes (Post 4034847)
An airliner squawking a civilian code the entire time, on a known civilian route, in contact with ATC the entire time, on commercial air corridor amber 59, yet the ship tried to contact them on military frequencies and did not have any equipment for civilian air traffic frequencies. And because ethe US navy personnel didn't follow their own rules for resetting range identification, they (on the ship) designated it with an erroneous unfriendly IFF code, also erroneously stating that the aircraft was descending towards the ship, which it was not. And as opposed to the ship that shot it down, the crew of USS Sides, which issued one final challenge after the 10 of Vincennes, indicated that they had from take-off identified Flight 655 as a commercial flight. We had issued a NOTAM to stay more than 5 miles away from warships and that civilian traffic may continue as long as it originated/went to approved locations, which this one did. We screwed this up bad. Fog of war isn't an excuse to not follow procedure.

Lessons were learned. Morally we obviously want to avoid this kind of thing. Practically speaking, the geopolitical optics are bad.

But this one was 100% on Iran for flying airliners into hot combat that THEY initiated. No sympathy.

Trip7 05-12-2026 08:25 AM

https://x.com/i/status/2054235185907179926

Generational opportunity to own a refiner, especially as diesel inventory gets REALLY interesting over the next 2 weeks

ShyGuy 05-12-2026 03:29 PM


Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 4034884)
Lessons were learned. Morally we obviously want to avoid this kind of thing. Practically speaking, the geopolitical optics are bad.

But this one was 100% on Iran for flying airliners into hot combat that THEY initiated. No sympathy.

The Vincennes screwed up. Pure and simple. You wrote it off as “fog of war” and then have the arrogance to dismiss Iran Air for being there in the first place out of Bandar Abbas. No sympathy is the typical arrogance of Americans that is hated by those overseas. And by seas, I mean by water. Not by what you visually see. Just wanted to clarify that.

METO Guido 05-12-2026 03:44 PM


Originally Posted by ShyGuy (Post 4035048)
The Vincennes screwed up. Pure and simple. You wrote it off as “fog of war” and then have the arrogance to dismiss Iran Air for being there in the first place out of Bandar Abbas. No sympathy is the typical arrogance of Americans that is hated by those overseas. And by seas, I mean by water. Not by what you visually see. Just wanted to clarify that.

no. Pueblo was a screw up. Vincennes a series of errors. Unintentional. That’s war fog.


ShyGuy 05-12-2026 03:51 PM


Originally Posted by RJSAviator76 (Post 4034805)

You want to exclude Iraq? Why? You can’t discuss Iranian kinetic engagement while ignoring the Quds Force and the EFPs that accounted for hundreds of U.S. casualties.

Because it was also a stupid war we started, based on lies of WMDs. And nothing to do with 9/11. Just how much are you attributing of the thousands of US soldier deaths inside Iraq, to Iran? QUDs inside Iraq made up a small portion of the overall resistance the U.S. faced.


As for the Khobar attack, I don’t recall blame on Iran for that. But I guess it certainly makes it easier to what…. justify crap from the 80s to war in 2026? No one cited stuff from the 80s to justify the war today.




Those weren't 'accidents'; they were targeted.
Of course they were targeted, because they were military installations or military personnel, in their part of the world.


And no, contrary to what people believe in your native Pakistan, our country and our military do not deliberately shoot down airliners full of innocent civilians. You're comparing a tragic fog-of-war accident to deliberate targeting of US and Israeli civilians.
Yes, fog of war. Iran shot down a Ukrainian 737 in 2020. It was not deliberately targeted, they thought (stupidly) it was a missile.



Funny how you also conveniently omit that the US paid $131 million in compensation for the accident. Do you recall Iran ever paying any compensation for their terror activities throughout the decades or say.... Khobar Towers bombing that killed 19 US airmen? I sure don't.
I guess because we entered their world? I don’t know. If Russia took Cuba and the started bombing us from Cuba, I probably wouldn’t care if something bad happened to Cuba.





As for 'following the money,' it is a cliché, lazy, and pathetic pivot to AIPAC. It’s ironic that you’ve built a career as a pilot in the US while still clutching the same anti-American tropes and regional biases you were raised with..... you are deliberately dismissing a documented trail of American blood just to protect that narrative.
Nope. Follow the money. That’s usually where answers are. Who stands to financially gain from all this? That’s where you’ll find some answers. This entire process was launched haphazardly and has been a grift. There has been a lot of money made on oil futures and short positions literally moments before a Trump announcement. This has occurred multiple times since Feb 28.


“Regional biases you were raised with.”

Nice try at a personal attack. I moved to the United States at a very young age, just after 2nd grade elementary school, so I have been raised to and exposed to the western way of life and freedoms. You know, part of that freedom being the right to criticize your govt actions and free speech against the govt without fear of govt retaliation.



As for your last sentence, right back at you: You are dismissing multiple changing narratives for why this war is happening in order to protect that narrative.

ShyGuy 05-12-2026 03:55 PM


Originally Posted by NERD (Post 4034862)
Thanks for clearing that up. I was literally going to ask him he was from that part of the world. Explains a lot.


Not since the 2nd grade elementary school. And a second grader had very limited exposure, most of my memories have been right here in the United States after 2nd grade - forward…



Did you have a specific question?

ThumbsUp 05-12-2026 04:30 PM


Originally Posted by ShyGuy (Post 4035051)
As for the Khobar attack, I don’t recall blame on Iran for that. But I guess it certainly makes it easier to what…. justify crap from the 80s to war in 2026? No one cited stuff from the 80s to justify the war today.

Khobar towers was attacked by in 1996, not the 80’s, by an Iranian terror proxy. But you’re right, we should’ve obliterated them at that point.

DeltaboundRedux 05-12-2026 05:00 PM


Originally Posted by Trip7 (Post 4034909)
https://x.com/i/status/2054235185907179926

Generational opportunity to own a refiner, especially as diesel inventory gets REALLY interesting over the next 2 weeks

Southwest famously made bank and funded both an expansion and new aircraft purchases based on fuel hedges (which no one does anymore)

That would be nice if the one airline who owns a refinery can have the once in a generation opportunity to do the same.

(assuming it survives that kind of fuel pricing meltdown)

ShyGuy 05-12-2026 05:16 PM


Originally Posted by ThumbsUp (Post 4035062)
Khobar towers was attacked by in 1996, not the 80’s, by an Iranian terror proxy. But you’re right, we should’ve obliterated them at that point.


So 19 deaths total and you want to obliterate a country of 92 million?


Hell, we lose more than that in a class full of school children in Sandy Hook… Uvalde… that’s why I can’t take your side seriously. They try so hard to justify any of this going on today, by reaching back in the 80s and 90s.

ThumbsUp 05-12-2026 05:36 PM


Originally Posted by ShyGuy (Post 4035079)
So 19 deaths total and you want to obliterate a country of 92 million?


Hell, we lose more than that in a class full of school children in Sandy Hook… Uvalde… that’s why I can’t take your side seriously. They try so hard to justify any of this going on today, by reaching back in the 80s and 90s.

Uh no…. Just the regime. It’s the same reason I can’t take a terrorist simp like yourself seriously. If you fund, train and equip the majority of the terrorist attacks of the 20th and 21st centuries, you deserve the axe.


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