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Originally Posted by PineappleXpres
(Post 4025071)
You’re right we’ll print our way out and just hyper inflate so we can survive 10/ at the pump. I wouldn’t mess with us either, but no we won’t out last an economic crisis.
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Originally Posted by ShyGuy
(Post 4025059)
Trump is lying to the American people. How the deal was so close, how Iran had basically agreed to everything. Now Iran saying they are no where close to an agreement.
Only one side is manipulating the stock market for personal gain and grifting. The official representative of the government of Iran doesn’t do that if any of your statements are true, nor if they don’t have support from the very top. What very likely happened is that the IRGC didn’t like ‘peaceful’ events going against “the revolution”, and seized control/went rogue. |
Originally Posted by FangsF15
(Post 4025093)
You ignore the fact the Iranian Foreign Minister and Parliament speaker put out the fact that the Straight was “completely open”. Even Al Jazeera reported it.
The official representative of the government of Iran doesn’t do that if any of your statements are true, nor if they don’t have support from the very top. What very likely happened is that the IRGC didn’t like ‘peaceful’ events going against “the revolution”, and seized control/went rogue. The POTUS Simultaneously said it was open and blockaded. Of course they then closed it. Some of the posts here read like they are from cable news. |
Originally Posted by Round Luggage
(Post 4025099)
mental gymnastics.
The POTUS Simultaneously said it was open and blockaded. Of course they then closed it. Some of the posts here read like they are from cable news. Doesn't anyone in a leadership role remember the legend of Croesus and his consulting the Oracle of Delphi? And the objective fact that the nation he then attacked was Persia? |
Originally Posted by Round Luggage
(Post 4025099)
mental gymnastics.
The POTUS Simultaneously said it was open and blockaded. Of course they then closed it. Some of the posts here read like they are from cable news. You can try to claim this is part of some game on the part of the Iranians if you want, but you can't accuse the president of "lying" when the official representatives of the other side are formally validating the critical parts of what he is saying in public. That' s just bias coming screaming through. Again, IMO it is far more likely that there are two competing factions within the Iranian government, and the IRGC is (in their minds) putting a capital "G" in IRGC. Almost a "over my dead body" kind of thing (maybe literally...) This is far from over, from either perspective. Claims of 'this is over' are just as ridiculous as those who claim the sky is (inevitably) falling. There is a lot of baseball left to play... |
Originally Posted by FangsF15
(Post 4025107)
It's not mental gymnastics in the slightest. Did the Foreign minister and Speaker of the Parliament, the official representatives of Iran, declare the straight "completely open" or not? The president is simply stating that the blockade of Iranian ports will only be lifted when the handshake deal is formalized in ink. It's called a backstop. It happens all the time in negotiations, big and small.
Yep. You can try to claim this is part of some game on the part of the Iranians if you want, but you can't accuse the president of "lying" when the official representatives of the other side are formally validating the critical parts of what he is saying in public. That' s just bias coming screaming through. Again, IMO it is far more likely that there are two competing factions within the Iranian government, and the IRGC is (in their minds) putting a capital "G" in IRGC. Almost a "over my dead body" kind of thing (maybe literally...) This is far from over, from either perspective. Claims of 'this is over' are just as ridiculous as those who claim the sky is (inevitably) falling. There is a lot of baseball left to play... If you hurry a miracle, you get a rotten miracle Miracle Max |
Originally Posted by FangsF15
(Post 4025107)
It's not mental gymnastics in the slightest. Did the Foreign minister and Speaker of the Parliament, the official representatives of Iran, declare the straight "completely open" or not? The president is simply stating that the blockade of Iranian ports will only be lifted when the handshake deal is formalized in ink. It's called a backstop. It happens all the time in negotiations, big and small.
You can try to claim this is part of some game on the part of the Iranians if you want, but you can't accuse the president of "lying" when the official representatives of the other side are formally validating the critical parts of what he is saying in public. That' s just bias coming screaming through. Again, IMO it is far more likely that there are two competing factions within the Iranian government, and the IRGC is (in their minds) putting a capital "G" in IRGC. Almost a "over my dead body" kind of thing (maybe literally...) This is far from over, from either perspective. Claims of 'this is over' are just as ridiculous as those who claim the sky is (inevitably) falling. There is a lot of baseball left to play... |
Originally Posted by Hotel Kilo
(Post 4025113)
Last gasps of some rogue IRGC fellas that are pizzed their cheese was moved. They will soon be irrelevant. I firmly believe we are on the cusp of something brilliant happening in Iran. Can you imagine, in our lifetime Fangs, an Iran not ruled by mullahs buttressed by the IRGC?
How will Iran be governed going forward? Who is leading this movement for change and taking out the IRGC? |
Originally Posted by jerryleber
(Post 4025114)
Awesome!
How will Iran be governed going forward? Who is leading this movement for change and taking out the IRGC? The rest, that's up to the Iranians. |
Originally Posted by FangsF15
(Post 4025107)
It's not mental gymnastics in the slightest. Did the Foreign minister and Speaker of the Parliament, the official representatives of Iran, declare the straight "completely open" or not? The president is simply stating that the blockade of Iranian ports will only be lifted when the handshake deal is formalized in ink. It's called a backstop. It happens all the time in negotiations, big and small.
You can try to claim this is part of some game on the part of the Iranians if you want, but you can't accuse the president of "lying" when the official representatives of the other side are formally validating the critical parts of what he is saying in public. That' s just bias coming screaming through. Again, IMO it is far more likely that there are two competing factions within the Iranian government, and the IRGC is (in their minds) putting a capital "G" in IRGC. Almost a "over my dead body" kind of thing (maybe literally...) This is far from over, from either perspective. Claims of 'this is over' are just as ridiculous as those who claim the sky is (inevitably) falling. There is a lot of baseball left to play... Might be bad, might be good. Good that the regime is fracturing, means the pressure is working. Bad that it might be harder to settle this thing. Good that *somebody* over there seems inclined to cooperate. Bad that we don't know who will ultimately wind up in charge. Stand by to stand by. |
Originally Posted by Hotel Kilo
(Post 4025124)
Well it won't be the mullahs and the IRGC now will it.
The rest, that's up to the Iranians. |
Originally Posted by Hotel Kilo
(Post 4025124)
Well it won't be the mullahs and the IRGC now will it.
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Originally Posted by Hotel Kilo
(Post 4025124)
Well it won't be the mullahs and the IRGC now will it.
The rest, that's up to the Iranians. |
Originally Posted by Hotel Kilo
(Post 4025124)
Well it won't be the mullahs and the IRGC now will it.
The rest, that's up to the Iranians. It would likely be a better outcome if their parliamentary faction were to get control, but that is unlikely without the IRGC’s annihilation. |
Originally Posted by Lowslung
(Post 4025126)
A lot of optimism right here considering our very recent history of meddling with middle eastern governments has universally failed to produce the desired result. 🤷♂️
GCC has cleaned their own house and have relations with IL. Qaddafi swung from a light pole, Assad barely made it to Moscow with his skin intact, the new guy in Syria is objectively better despite his previous CV. |
Putin's former #2 had this to say, and he's absolutely right:
"It’s not clear how the truce between Washington and Tehran will play out. But one thing is certain — Iran has tested its nuclear weapons. It’s called the Strait of Hormuz. Its potential is inexhaustible,” said Dmitri Medvedev, a former president of Russia and deputy chairman of the country’s security council, last week. Before this, it had been 40 years since Iran tried to close the Strait (during the war with Iraq). They (rightly) feared that closing the Strait would generate a coordinated response from Western powers. But now they've realized they only need a few drones and boats to paralyze tanker traffic. As Medvedev says above, that power may well be more of a deterrent than nuclear weapons ever could be. |
Originally Posted by Lowslung
(Post 4025126)
A lot of optimism right here considering our very recent history of meddling with middle eastern governments has universally failed to produce the desired result. 🤷♂️
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Originally Posted by Turbosina
(Post 4025138)
Putin's former #2 had this to say, and he's absolutely right:
"It’s not clear how the truce between Washington and Tehran will play out. But one thing is certain — Iran has tested its nuclear weapons. It’s called the Strait of Hormuz. Its potential is inexhaustible,” said Dmitri Medvedev, a former president of Russia and deputy chairman of the country’s security council, last week. Before this, it had been 40 years since Iran tried to close the Strait (during the war with Iraq). They (rightly) feared that closing the Strait would generate a coordinated response from Western powers. But now they've realized they only need a few drones and boats to paralyze tanker traffic. As Medvedev says above, that power may well be more of a deterrent than nuclear weapons ever could be. |
Originally Posted by Hotel Kilo
(Post 4025124)
Well it won't be the mullahs and the IRGC now will it.
The rest, that's up to the Iranians. |
Originally Posted by Lowslung
(Post 4025126)
A lot of optimism right here considering our very recent history of meddling with middle eastern governments has universally failed to produce the desired result. 🤷♂️
Do we just dissolve the federal government now or only vote for people you like? We know it will get worse if he takes a retreat to Camp David. |
Originally Posted by Hotel Kilo
(Post 4025113)
Agree with your above post and this one except for the last part. We are most definitely in denouement here. We hold all the cards right now. Last gasps of some rogue IRGC fellas that are pizzed their cheese was moved. They will soon be irrelevant. I firmly believe we are on the cusp of something brilliant happening in Iran. Can you imagine, in our lifetime Fangs, an Iran not ruled by mullahs buttressed by the IRGC?
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Originally Posted by OpieTaylor
(Post 4025171)
We got it bro, war on drugs failed, war on poverty failed, war on crime failed.
Do we just dissolve the federal government now or only vote for people you like? We know it will get worse if he takes a retreat to Camp David. |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 4025136)
The two examples of attempted full-scale nation-building didn't go well. Most of the rest of it has been fine over the last 30 years, striking a balance between diplomacy, economic engagement, pressure, and low-intensity intervention where sensible.
GCC has cleaned their own house and have relations with IL. Qaddafi swung from a light pole, Assad barely made it to Moscow with his skin intact, the new guy in Syria is objectively better despite his previous CV. |
Originally Posted by Lowslung
(Post 4025233)
I would hardly call Libya and Syria examples of success. Last I checked, both are maybe just a hair’s width above failed states. And before anyone accuses me of partisanship, I agree that the Obama administration shares much of the blame for recent policy failures in the region. Seems party affiliation is meaningless when it comes to unindented consequences in that part of the world.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s not holier than now. The Spanish Inquisition kept at it for 350 years and really stopped only in the 1830s. And Christianity had a 650 year head start on civilizing itself and purging savagery from its ranks. There are 2.2 billion Christians on this globe. About 2 million followers of Islam. The “true believers” of the Spanish Inquisition would consider about 2 billion of those Christians to be infidels - fallen from the True Faith. The “true believers” (fundamentalists) of Islam consider about 75-80% (their own moderates) to be more or less heretical or at least lapsed from the true faith. It’s taken Christianity 2000 years from its founding to smooth out some of the rough edges and even now that process is incomplete. It shouldn’t surprise us that it’ll take as much time for Islam |
Originally Posted by Excargodog
(Post 4025248)
There are 2.2 billion Christians on this globe. About 2 million followers of Islam.
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Originally Posted by dera
(Post 4025255)
Typo? Or whats your angle here?
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Originally Posted by dera
(Post 4025255)
Typo? Or whats your angle here?
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Originally Posted by checkgear
(Post 4025268)
Has to be a typo, he’s off by about 1.998 billion
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Originally Posted by METO Guido
(Post 4025266)
There are no angles or angels. Archaic dogmatism powered by the universal fear life is not eternal. Still no reason to declare open season on heretics. No nukes. Imam gangsters sign on, win, win, win:)
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Originally Posted by dera
(Post 4025279)
Great contribution as always. Not that anyone understood what you are trying to say, as always.
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Originally Posted by Turbosina
(Post 4024878)
Before the "excursion": The SoH was open to all traffic.
Today: closed to all traffic. Before: Oil stable at around $60. Today: Oil has increased by 50 pct and will likely go higher when markets reopen. Before: Jet fuel prices stable. Today: Jet fuel up by an average of 80 pct. (My usual cheap Jet A stop was $3.30/ gal, today they are at $6.35.) Before: Elderly, ailing imam in charge of the regime, with significant popular discontent posing a real challenge to the regime's continued existence. Today: More radical, much younger, and likely much angrier imam supposedly in charge. (In reality it's likely competing factions within the IRGC are duking it out for control, which is likely a worse situation than before.) Moreover, we've almost certainly turned public opinion even harder against us, deflecting their hatred for the regime onto the people who have been bombing them. Before: Russia's oil revenues were $9.7 billion/ month. Today: Russian oil revenues have doubled to $20 bn/ month. Before: Iran had enriched uranium buried deep underground. Today: Iran has enriched uranium buried deep underground. Before: Iran had a large conventional military capability and a significant asymmetrical warfare capability. Today: Iran's conventional military has been largely destroyed, but its asymmetric warfare capabilities remain powerful enough to allow them to close one of the world's most critical shipping lanes. These are the facts. (Aside from my opinion on the stability of the regime, which is just my opinion.) Everything else are verifiable, hard facts. If this looks like winning to you... Well then you have a different grasp on reality than I do. |
Originally Posted by hoover
(Post 4025314)
I swear I just heard the same language from a talking head in CNN.
Unfortunately, you won't hear them from many sources, as what factual information can be aired and still keep viewership and support of The Party depends on what reality is acceptable. |
Originally Posted by MaxQ
(Post 4025316)
You SHOULD hear essentially the same language from the 'talking heads on any of the cable news programs, as these are some of the bare bones facts.
Unfortunately, you won't hear them from many sources, as what factual information can be aired and still keep viewership and support of The Party depends on what reality is acceptable. |
Originally Posted by hoover
(Post 4025314)
I swear I just heard the same language from a talking head in CNN.
But please do point out any factual errors I've made. Honestly, I'm all ears. |
Originally Posted by Excargodog
(Post 4025248)
Eventually if you study the society - live in it for awhile - you understand what the problem is. It’s Islam.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s not holier than now. The Spanish Inquisition kept at it for 350 years and really stopped only in the 1830s. And Christianity had a 650 year head start on civilizing itself and purging savagery from its ranks. There are 2.2 billion Christians on this globe. About 2 million followers of Islam. The “true believers” of the Spanish Inquisition would consider about 2 billion of those Christians to be infidels - fallen from the True Faith. The “true believers” (fundamentalists) of Islam consider about 75-80% (their own moderates) to be more or less heretical or at least lapsed from the true faith. It’s taken Christianity 2000 years from its founding to smooth out some of the rough edges and even now that process is incomplete. It shouldn’t surprise us that it’ll take as much time for Islam Great example of when someone shows you who they are, believe them. |
Originally Posted by ShyGuy
(Post 4025322)
Great example of when someone shows you who they are, believe them.
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Originally Posted by METO Guido
(Post 4025351)
We do believe ‘them.’ But we don’t care who they think they are or wtf they say they believe in. We also recognize they just happen to be standing directly in the path of critical world trade:) So if they don’t get back in line, rather soonish, we may ultimately be forced to really bomb the living crap out of them this time around. Teamed up with only Israel of course. Tragic. Nonetheless Imperative.
They opened it for the truce, then found out that they were subject to a blockade and any shipping associated with them subject to attack or capture worldwide, and Israel could bomb Lebanon. IOW, not really a cease fire. So they closed it. Want the strait open again? Go back to the way things were before Feb 28th. Oh, that's right. The people, such as yourself, that want the strait open killed the Iranians that you need to negotiate with. The strait is Iran's Trump card. They would not be playing it if they hadn't been backed into a corner. This is the type of stuff that happens when those with power act without thought, consideration, or imagination. Ah yes. Once again lions led by donkeys. |
Originally Posted by MaxQ
(Post 4025359)
The strait was open until we started assasinating their leaders and bombing them.
They opened it for the truce, then found out that they were subject to a blockade and any shipping associated with them subject to attack or capture worldwide, and Israel could bomb Lebanon. IOW, not really a cease fire. So they closed it. Want the strait open again? Go back to the way things were before Feb 28th. Oh, that's right. The people, such as yourself, that want the strait open killed the Iranians that you need to negotiate with. The strait is Iran's Trump card. They would not be playing it if they hadn't been backed into a corner. This is the type of stuff that happens when those with power act without thought, consideration, or imagination. Ah yes. Once again lions led by donkeys. Withdraw on a bs treaty, plead guilty to another chicken out rap. Replay this scene allover again at Xmas. Steady as she goes Mr. Chekov. |
Originally Posted by METO Guido
(Post 4025351)
We do believe ‘them.’ But we don’t care who they think they are or wtf they say they believe in. We also recognize they just happen to be standing directly in the path of critical world trade:) So if they don’t get back in line, rather soonish, we may ultimately be forced to really bomb the living crap out of them this time around. Teamed up with only Israel of course. Tragic. Nonetheless Imperative.
I meant his anti Islamic comments. But if you were serious about Iran, committing war crimes (“bombing the crap” re: bridges and infrastructure) is still illegal. Not that it would stop Trump. Still think he’d TACO. You can’t keep the SOH safe. They can literally launch floating mines from the shore and hit ships. We were told their military was “decimated” yet we have our aircraft shot down. This is not ending anytime soon. It will be hilarious to watch even higher gas prices than under Biden. I really wonder though if the cult will realize it was their own leader now causing their financial woes. |
Originally Posted by MaxQ
(Post 4025359)
The strait was open until we started assasinating their leaders and bombing them.
They opened it for the truce, then found out that they were subject to a blockade and any shipping associated with them subject to attack or capture worldwide, and Israel could bomb Lebanon. IOW, not really a cease fire. So they closed it. Want the strait open again? Go back to the way things were before Feb 28th. Oh, that's right. The people, such as yourself, that want the strait open killed the Iranians that you need to negotiate with. The strait is Iran's Trump card. They would not be playing it if they hadn't been backed into a corner. This is the type of stuff that happens when those with power act without thought, consideration, or imagination. Ah yes. Once again lions led by donkeys. Correct. Sadly, the cult won’t understand. They fall for it hook, line, sinker. |
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