Economic Impacts of Iran War
#421
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Joined: Aug 2022
Posts: 865
Likes: 156
Looks like you were off on oil prices by about $111 and missed the mark on furloughs and a complete collapse of the economy and the aviation industry…
But keep parroting a term referenced as museum by Eric Stalwell… it makes ya look and sound ridiculous, but in the end that’s all you have. Wonder if the Ayatollah is eating TACO’s in Jannah?
But keep parroting a term referenced as museum by Eric Stalwell… it makes ya look and sound ridiculous, but in the end that’s all you have. Wonder if the Ayatollah is eating TACO’s in Jannah?
#422
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Joined: Aug 2022
Posts: 865
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well, define over?
we’ve established that y’all think oil is going between $150-200, the airline industry is about to crumble with furloughs and a/c cancellations…
I believe we’ve seen the worst of the oil spike, we’ll see a nuclear deal, the SOH will be reopened, prices will plummet quickly and by Summer I’ll be filling my truck up for $60.
You believe in TACO’s, Iranian officials being honest and not a threat…
One of us won’t stress about the future, won’t make irrational financial decisions and in the end, be right again.
we’ve established that y’all think oil is going between $150-200, the airline industry is about to crumble with furloughs and a/c cancellations…
I believe we’ve seen the worst of the oil spike, we’ll see a nuclear deal, the SOH will be reopened, prices will plummet quickly and by Summer I’ll be filling my truck up for $60.
You believe in TACO’s, Iranian officials being honest and not a threat…
One of us won’t stress about the future, won’t make irrational financial decisions and in the end, be right again.
#423
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,154
Likes: 192
That is the entire point of my post. I am saying IF Iran was truly a threat to America, the only solution would be total war. And if we go down that path, it would require more ammunition than our economy (the point of this thread) could ever afford. Taking our ball and going home, while the cheaper option, is also bad for the economy. We waste expensive munitions, we damage oil infrastructure, and we supply the world with another generation of terrorists. It's a quagmire where we lose no matter what path we pick.
How true.
Wars that are begun without a clearly defined, understood, and stated political objective rarely go very well. (partially because no one really knows what will end them, or when they will end)
All the battlefield victories don't mean much if they do not achieve a political goal.
There is a lengthy list of post WW2 mid-sized wars that end poorly for the power that has the stronger military.
On paper they have all the advantages. But the major powers often enter the war as a sideshow to the population's daily life. Not only is sacrifice not solicited of them, the very opposite is encouraged. ("Go Shopping!") The war and the country are disconnected.
For the weaker military power, when it is an existential crisis that involves their very existence or their core identity, they find resilience and reserves that leaves the stronger power baffled. With the 'stronger' lacking political leadership that is willing to advise the nation that there must be sacrifice, the weaker nation outlasts them and emerges the victor. (see Khaldun's asabiyyah)
An ambivalent People are incapable of waging total war.
(It can be waged with nukes by a handful of people. However, my personal opinion is that any nation that launches an unprovoked nuclear attack will either perish quickly in the ensuing nuclear catastrophe, or perish within a generation or two from the fallout of the monstrousness of the crime.)
#424
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,598
Likes: 45
An equally foolish question would be....Why do you cheer for the Iran war effort to fail? (See what I did there?)
Is it possible in your world, that people can have a different perspective than you ......and not be stupid?
Rhetorical
#425
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Prime Minister/Moderator

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 45,098
Likes: 788
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Franz-Stefan Gady wrote in Foreign Policy of what he called the "strike-as-strategy" paradox. Where "we substitute tactical prowess for comprehensive strategic design".
How true.
Wars that are begun without a clearly defined, understood, and stated political objective rarely go very well. (partially because no one really knows what will end them, or when they will end)
All the battlefield victories don't mean much if they do not achieve a political goal.
There is a lengthy list of post WW2 mid-sized wars that end poorly for the power that has the stronger military.
On paper they have all the advantages. But the major powers often enter the war as a sideshow to the population's daily life. Not only is sacrifice not solicited of them, the very opposite is encouraged. ("Go Shopping!") The war and the country are disconnected.
For the weaker military power, when it is an existential crisis that involves their very existence or their core identity, they find resilience and reserves that leaves the stronger power baffled. With the 'stronger' lacking political leadership that is willing to advise the nation that there must be sacrifice, the weaker nation outlasts them and emerges the victor. (see Khaldun's asabiyyah)
An ambivalent People are incapable of waging total war.
(It can be waged with nukes by a handful of people. However, my personal opinion is that any nation that launches an unprovoked nuclear attack will either perish quickly in the ensuing nuclear catastrophe, or perish within a generation or two from the fallout of the monstrousness of the crime.)
How true.
Wars that are begun without a clearly defined, understood, and stated political objective rarely go very well. (partially because no one really knows what will end them, or when they will end)
All the battlefield victories don't mean much if they do not achieve a political goal.
There is a lengthy list of post WW2 mid-sized wars that end poorly for the power that has the stronger military.
On paper they have all the advantages. But the major powers often enter the war as a sideshow to the population's daily life. Not only is sacrifice not solicited of them, the very opposite is encouraged. ("Go Shopping!") The war and the country are disconnected.
For the weaker military power, when it is an existential crisis that involves their very existence or their core identity, they find resilience and reserves that leaves the stronger power baffled. With the 'stronger' lacking political leadership that is willing to advise the nation that there must be sacrifice, the weaker nation outlasts them and emerges the victor. (see Khaldun's asabiyyah)
An ambivalent People are incapable of waging total war.
(It can be waged with nukes by a handful of people. However, my personal opinion is that any nation that launches an unprovoked nuclear attack will either perish quickly in the ensuing nuclear catastrophe, or perish within a generation or two from the fallout of the monstrousness of the crime.)
So far nobody has used nukes lightly. Doing so would be existential for the first user in many scenarios.
But context would matter, if it's last-ditch in defense from invaders on your own territory you'd get a pass from the international community.
The vast majority of nuclear powers do appear to consider their arsenals as a deterrent, and thus potentially an enabler of their own freedom of action. As opposed to a first-use weapon.
The most likely nations to use them first would be IL, then very distant second/third India and Pakistan.
No, DPRK doesn't have a reason to actually use them (unless US and ROK invaded...).
#427
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,401
Likes: 473
Why do find it outlandish? About the same % of people support the effort as those that are against it.
An equally foolish question would be....Why do you cheer for the Iran war effort to fail? (See what I did there?)
Is it possible in your world, that people can have a different perspective than you ......and not be stupid?
Rhetorical
An equally foolish question would be....Why do you cheer for the Iran war effort to fail? (See what I did there?)
Is it possible in your world, that people can have a different perspective than you ......and not be stupid?
Rhetorical
#428
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,154
Likes: 192
Yes you obviously need a clear roadmap to the ultimate *strategic* objective before you employ tactical/operational capabilities.
So far nobody has used nukes lightly. Doing so would be existential for the first user in many scenarios.
But context would matter, if it's last-ditch in defense from invaders on your own territory you'd get a pass from the international community.
The vast majority of nuclear powers do appear to consider their arsenals as a deterrent, and thus potentially an enabler of their own freedom of action. As opposed to a first-use weapon.
The most likely nations to use them first would be IL, then very distant second/third India and Pakistan.
No, DPRK doesn't have a reason to actually use them (unless US and ROK invaded...).
So far nobody has used nukes lightly. Doing so would be existential for the first user in many scenarios.
But context would matter, if it's last-ditch in defense from invaders on your own territory you'd get a pass from the international community.
The vast majority of nuclear powers do appear to consider their arsenals as a deterrent, and thus potentially an enabler of their own freedom of action. As opposed to a first-use weapon.
The most likely nations to use them first would be IL, then very distant second/third India and Pakistan.
No, DPRK doesn't have a reason to actually use them (unless US and ROK invaded...).
Your reference to "last ditch" defense is why I included 'unprovoked use' as possibly bringing total destruction to whomever would do such a thing.
Regardless the circumstances, first-use would definitely be entering "a path where no man thought".
(talk about launching something that would have unpredictable results!)
#429
That is the entire point of my post. I am saying IF Iran was truly a threat to America, the only solution would be total war. And if we go down that path, it would require more ammunition than our economy (the point of this thread) could ever afford. Taking our ball and going home, while the cheaper option, is also bad for the economy. We waste expensive munitions, we damage oil infrastructure, and we supply the world with another generation of terrorists. It's a quagmire where we lose no matter what path we pick.
#430
Why do find it outlandish? About the same % of people support the effort as those that are against it.
An equally foolish question would be....Why do you cheer for the Iran war effort to fail? (See what I did there?)
Is it possible in your world, that people can have a different perspective than you ......and not be stupid?
Rhetorical
An equally foolish question would be....Why do you cheer for the Iran war effort to fail? (See what I did there?)
Is it possible in your world, that people can have a different perspective than you ......and not be stupid?
Rhetorical
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