1900Driver

Why did go guys give up the scope cause..? Compass and Mesaba will now be flying 70 plus seats out there replacing your DC-9 jobs? why... I work for a pretty good regional now but I dont want to stay here and the way things are looking it seems like regionals keep getting bigger airplanes...

atpcliff

Hi!

I'm NOT at NWA...

I don't think their scope changed in any meaningful way.

Mesaba flew RJ-85s, with 64? seats in them. They are VERY old and fuel hogs, and are being phased out. NWA's feeders were allowed to replace these aircraft as they were retired.

I think the 64 seat is the max that can be flown as feed. Anything higher has to be flown at NWA proper.

It may be that the feeders can get MORE aircraft than just replacements for the RJ-85, but if they do get more, then NWA has to buy so many mainline aircraft (at some set ratio) of a certain size to make up for the new feeder aircraft.

Some of the NWA feeder aircraft may SEEM bigger, but they are seat-restricted, which is one of the reasons that NWA will have 2 classes in their new ERJ and CRJ aircraft.

cliff
YIP

HercDriver130

Well 1900 dude...since you work for such a good regional and you have been slamming guys left and right on this forum....just pray tell who do you work for?

Eric Stratton

are you kidding me...you're trying to slam a guy for asking why a major would give up any flying. didn't they learn their lesson with the avro and 50 seaters to begin with? (and I'm not just talking NWA here) it looks as though CAL is the only one to have learned that lesson, and it took them 275 145's to learn it too...
what's next on the list to be given up 737's? we all know what great pay everyone is getting for those 170's to 900's out their.

aircraftdriver

As I understand things, the 36 CRJ-900s Mesaba is getting is a one for one replacement of the Avro's. The Avro's had 69 seats which was the previous scope clause limit. The new limit is 76 seats - so that means NW gave up a whopping 7 seats 1900 dude!

Otherwise, NW Airlinks can now fly 90 seventy six seat aircraft until certain ratios are met which would allow them to fly more (ie. more aircraft at mainline).

I agree with that mainline should fly these aircraft, but that is not a reality. Considering this, I think the NW pilots have a good hold on their flying. Compared to other legacys's, NW has a relatively small number of SJ's flying for them and the SJ's that are flying are mainly in the 50 seat range, except of course the new 76 seaters.

Eric Stratton

is that ratio "new" airplanes or "growth" of airplanes? meaning is a replacement for the 9 considered a new airplane but with no growth.

in my opinion losing airplanes while you grow is not a good hold on things...ie the ratio

aircraftdriver

Good point. I have no idea. Does anyone know?

newKnow

1900, Driver,

The short answer to your question is, we gave up our scope because our senior guys convinced too many junior guys to vote for a contract that did little more than save their (the senior guys) pensions.

Question for you though. Why do you think it's ok to ask us such a question in such a demeaning way?

I doubt if you would show up looking for a jumpseat with such a question.

If you want to stay at your regional and fly your 1900 thru E-175, then go right ahead. Those of us who will still be here in the next 10-20 years will be forced to fix it and handle the business that wasn't done last year. But, don't act like we messed it up for you. We messed it up for ourselves, you are not even here (yet).

aircraftdriver

To get the required 10 characters to post, I say Amen.

Eric Stratton

how did he ask that question in a demeaning way. I just do see it.

I have to say that if you don't think giving up scope has messed it for the regional pilots and everyone who wants to work in this field, I think that is very naive. you say that you messed it up for yourselves. were you ever going to fly those airplanes?

every airplane that is given up in scope means that it will take 10 people that much longer to get to a major. there are over 1000 jets flying at the regionals right now. how many were their 10, 15, 20 years ago? the pay at the regionals is rather pathetic. those that don't think it is, go and fly from the right seat for a sustained amount of time after you can upgrade. where is the leverage for them to raise those rates. if they do, the majors just give it away to someone else.

how many jobs have been lost at the majors because they continue to give up scope. it started out with props at the regionals, then the 50 seater, then 69, now 76 and some regionals are flying 90 seaters. when does it stop? he wants to know, and if the majors keep giving away airplanes when times get tough maybe he might stay at the regional because he might just be flying 737/320's someday their.

you guys might be around for 10-20 years but the regional and new pilots will be here for 30-40 years.