About 20 years ago a friend and I were driving in his Mustang. I was driving. Some guy came driving right up to the rear bumper, so I slowed down and eased over to let him pass after about three miles of that. I then proceeded to do him the same way he had done us and got right on his bumper. He stopped the car, which by the way, had tinted windows. Two guys exited and walked back to us. I told my friend, "We can take them" and we went to get out. Well, two more guys got out, and then someone started to turn their car around ... needless to say, five on two is NOT my idea of a fair brawl, so I put the car in reverse and got the heck out of there Bo and Luke Duke style. As my friend and I drove away I said, "We aint gonna tell nobody about this!"

Moral of the story? You have to assume the worst, and when things start to go ugly early, you have to know when to say, 'this is enough' and live to fly another day.

As pilots MOST of us are very intuitive, intelligent, and have quick reflexes. We have all made bad decisions ... none of us are immune. You have to recognize when to 'get out of the car' and when to 'put it in reverse' and get the heck out of dodge. Be safe out there folks.

Tom

 

As an instructor pilot I say AMEN to that brother. As a sometime airline passenter, that is one scary statement considering who is in the right seat of most of the RJs out there. Not a dig on them personally just a comment on thier experience required to get the job.

 

I don't disagree with you. But it's not a perfect world. We all know that if we say "can't do it" in the end, we're more likely to be "punished" , particularly when other folks are "making it in." (Southwest 1418, turn right heading 120, expect vectors for another approach. You're now number 23 for the runway...")

Right or wrong, any pilot that flies to these airports knows about the various pressures that are put on them (by company, ATC, or themselves personally). That said, every crew that's flying should know where the line is and draw it. (The tough thing is there is no "line", but instead a blurred set of constantly changing conditions at any given time.)

At the end of the day, there are more than one safety cultures that need to be addressed, and this accident goes well beyond the cockpit of that 737 and Southwest's procedures and training for tailwind ops, contaminated runways and reduced performance.

 

Josh,

I agree with your assessment for the most part. If the inability to accept the conditions while another airplane can is just part of doing the job. Each airplane is different and even one of the same type may be able to do something another of the same type can't due to wt., MEL, crew mins etc.
That moving line is what we as pilots are supposed to do better than the rest. We are the ones that are supposed to continually reassess the feasibility of what we have planned. If the plan is not working or going to work we rework the problem. In fact this may be what I enjoy most about this job. Black and White exist but the blurring of the answer is a challenge to continue to find a safe and practical method to a solution.

For the crew of the SWA flight at MDW, they were satisfied with the numbers they had punched into the computer. Yet no one in the cockpit thought they might not sound right under the conditions. Someone needs to have a good idea if the information the computer is giving is correct. The SWA group in general does have a reputation as being cowboyish. You can hear this in their transmissions on the radio. Very few present a professional demeanor, they try to make it a fire side chat when communicating with controllers. It is their perceived lack of discipline and SOP adherence that appears to be the big issue for them to overcome. I think the final report will be an interesting read.

 

Tell you what... when you sign up for the jump seat, why don't you just tell the crew what you really think. In fact. Hey SWA pilots what do you think of the Lamb's remarks about levels of professionalism? Hey Lamb... I have a tissue for that brown spot on your nose.

 

Has it been determined what caused the delay in getting the thrust reverser's deployed?

 

Yeah, I was wondering about that too. Not too many things could affect BOTH reverers. Was it delayed logic from some sensor, or delayed activation of the arming switches?

 

Some airline cultures just say no to landing on a short snow covered R/W with any tailwind. Just the difference between a Go Go attitude and wait a minute lets think about this.

 

Well, since you asked, I think Lame is an idiot. His contempt for SWA alone shows his unprofessionalism. I don't know who he flies for but it is a safe bet that his company's safety record does not exceed SWA's... but you asked..

I kind of believe in the brotherhood of aviation that were all in and don't find a need to characterize someone by the airline he flies for. It's a pretty far leap to make that if you hear 3 pilots from XYZ airline miss a call, that all 12,000 of thier pilots are either deaf of unprofessional. Perhaps he might have some statistical data to add to his argument. The FAA has not directed our POI to address these gross violations of standard communication procedures with our pilot group as of yet. I will report back if this happens. Captjns, thanks for asking.

 

No worries, I don't ride SWA. Never have, Never will. Besides, I live in domicile and there is no where a SWA guppy is going that I need to be.

Thanks for the threat on the jumpseat war. That is a real class act you got going there. I will try NOT to remember that when one of your guys shows up to travel outside the US. NO, may be safest answer when one your guys shows up.