I left Netjets for an airline, here's why
04-14-2008, 04:53 AM
#1
New Hire
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 2
I left Netjets for an airline, here's why
Fellas,
There was a poll a few pages back about leaving a major airline for Netjets. I am new to APC and wanted to add my thoughts to the NJ/Airline debate.
It is extremely difficult to tell another pilot what he should do in regards to leaving one job for another. In this case both jobs have their individual merits and drawbacks; however, seeing as how I left NJ (5 year Ultra CPT) for an airline a couple of years back I think I have a good perspective on both. I won’t rehash all of the arguments for and against but will highlight the ones most important to me since they helped me to pull the trigger. For others my reasons are not that important and will be discounted, that’s fine. We all do that.
(Disclaimer alert! I work for SWA which I believe to be the best of the airlines and I actually haven’t flown under any of the new contracts at NJ.)
Number one reason for leaving NJ: the schedule. Plain and simple. I started with NJ when I was 33 and left them at 38 and frankly did not like the prospect of 7n7 for the rest of my life. But, some will argue, you as a junior FO are still working as much as me, in terms of the number of days in the month. Well, some months yes and others no. The one part that is missing is that I can give away my trips, or I can trade for better trips with the company or other pilots. Much more flexibility. At NJ forget it. You are on for a week, off for a week. You can work more if you want, but the bottom line is unless you pick up a 17 day sked it is set in stone. Even with the 17 they will pick the days for you, you won’t have a say in the matter. Now, assuming my seniority continues to rise I will bid better schedules, for example, many of which for May have 19 days off a month and even one with 20.
Another huge drawback to the 7n7 is that you will always work half of the weekends. I have been at SWA for less than two and can now get every weekend off, though some months it requires bidding a reserve sked. When my kids were younger and we homeskooled it really didn’t matter, in fact, it was great because we could take that week off and go on a mini vacation (though at the old pay rates we couldn’t take too many!). Now, my kids are in school and if I didn’t see them on the weekend I would miss a lot of time with them, not to mention missing ball games and such. Plus, attending church with my family is important and I can do that now.
At NJ we bid quarterly, how am I going to know what days I will need off 3 months away? Now at least I have until the 10th of the month to find out what I will need for the following month and bid accordingly. I don’t always get them all but at least I have a shot.
A couple more points on the schedule. Seven days is a long time to be gone in a row, especially when family crises arise. Believe me, after sticking with me in the military for all this time, my wife is fully capable of handling unexpected events. Inevitably, though, on the FIRST day out a major meltdown will occur, its standard murphyology. Now, at the most I know I will be home in 3 days, and this is in contrast to NJ where it could be another 6 days. Finally, I never really seemed to get a full seven days off because it took me at least a full day to recover from a week on (the NJ guys will understand how scheduling coincidentally seems always to get you in just before midnight on your last day) and a few hours to pack for another week away.
As for the “job” being harder at NJ or SWA, I believe a person will have consistent behavior based on their character and some will work just as hard at a job such as NJ as they will at SWA. In other words, much depends on how much you CARE about the customer and their experience. I had a NJ captain tell me once that I worked too hard and the problem was that I CARED. Obviously, he didn’t care and had he been hired at a major airline I doubt he would have cared there either, too. So I work hard and do extra things, like I did at NJ, at SWA. There are a couple of things I don’t miss though about NJ. Falling flat on my back at 4:30 in the morning on an slick ramp in Martha’s Vineyard in December on an “Ice Station Zebra” level cold day and having a sandwhich tray spill all over my chest. Or starting the day number 15 for deicing in LaGuardia and at the end of my duty day shooting an NDB circling to land at mins at night to an uncontrolled field in Texas hill country where I had never been. Good times. Now I know well in advance where I am going and with some certainty know what arrival and approach I will get. Boring to some, fine with me.
As far as the job benefits are concerned, my health care is the same (United) but it is $60 a month. The dental and vision are excellent and are a few bucks a month. The flight passes are outstanding on SWA and my family and parents, who can fly unlimited, take full advantage of them. In addition, we get 16 round trip tickets per year, space available of course, to give to family and friends. We also have ZED agreements with most major airlines and can get space available passes, unlimited and the price is VERY reasonable. For example, I live on the East Coast and my folks could fly round trip from California on Delta for $90 each way per person. At SWA I can earn as little (with some minimums) or as much money as I want. Most of my coworkers fly between 100-120 trips a month (we are paid per trip, one trip is roughly 1.1 hours block). I average around 100 because I like my time off.
Don’t get me wrong, Netjets has become a career job and I have helped several guys from my reserve unit get hired by them. But, for me it was the right move. When guys from my reserve unit ask how things are going I tell them “twice as good as I thought it would be” and that is the truth.
Ezplt
P.S. I sure miss getting crew food, especially from Rudy’s in Teteboro. Sometimes I dream about it while I am eating “Pilot Pellets” i.e. peanuts, on a cross country. And you still get per diem after jamming your pie hole with that great food. What a scam!
There was a poll a few pages back about leaving a major airline for Netjets. I am new to APC and wanted to add my thoughts to the NJ/Airline debate.
It is extremely difficult to tell another pilot what he should do in regards to leaving one job for another. In this case both jobs have their individual merits and drawbacks; however, seeing as how I left NJ (5 year Ultra CPT) for an airline a couple of years back I think I have a good perspective on both. I won’t rehash all of the arguments for and against but will highlight the ones most important to me since they helped me to pull the trigger. For others my reasons are not that important and will be discounted, that’s fine. We all do that.
(Disclaimer alert! I work for SWA which I believe to be the best of the airlines and I actually haven’t flown under any of the new contracts at NJ.)
Number one reason for leaving NJ: the schedule. Plain and simple. I started with NJ when I was 33 and left them at 38 and frankly did not like the prospect of 7n7 for the rest of my life. But, some will argue, you as a junior FO are still working as much as me, in terms of the number of days in the month. Well, some months yes and others no. The one part that is missing is that I can give away my trips, or I can trade for better trips with the company or other pilots. Much more flexibility. At NJ forget it. You are on for a week, off for a week. You can work more if you want, but the bottom line is unless you pick up a 17 day sked it is set in stone. Even with the 17 they will pick the days for you, you won’t have a say in the matter. Now, assuming my seniority continues to rise I will bid better schedules, for example, many of which for May have 19 days off a month and even one with 20.
Another huge drawback to the 7n7 is that you will always work half of the weekends. I have been at SWA for less than two and can now get every weekend off, though some months it requires bidding a reserve sked. When my kids were younger and we homeskooled it really didn’t matter, in fact, it was great because we could take that week off and go on a mini vacation (though at the old pay rates we couldn’t take too many!). Now, my kids are in school and if I didn’t see them on the weekend I would miss a lot of time with them, not to mention missing ball games and such. Plus, attending church with my family is important and I can do that now.
At NJ we bid quarterly, how am I going to know what days I will need off 3 months away? Now at least I have until the 10th of the month to find out what I will need for the following month and bid accordingly. I don’t always get them all but at least I have a shot.
A couple more points on the schedule. Seven days is a long time to be gone in a row, especially when family crises arise. Believe me, after sticking with me in the military for all this time, my wife is fully capable of handling unexpected events. Inevitably, though, on the FIRST day out a major meltdown will occur, its standard murphyology. Now, at the most I know I will be home in 3 days, and this is in contrast to NJ where it could be another 6 days. Finally, I never really seemed to get a full seven days off because it took me at least a full day to recover from a week on (the NJ guys will understand how scheduling coincidentally seems always to get you in just before midnight on your last day) and a few hours to pack for another week away.
As for the “job” being harder at NJ or SWA, I believe a person will have consistent behavior based on their character and some will work just as hard at a job such as NJ as they will at SWA. In other words, much depends on how much you CARE about the customer and their experience. I had a NJ captain tell me once that I worked too hard and the problem was that I CARED. Obviously, he didn’t care and had he been hired at a major airline I doubt he would have cared there either, too. So I work hard and do extra things, like I did at NJ, at SWA. There are a couple of things I don’t miss though about NJ. Falling flat on my back at 4:30 in the morning on an slick ramp in Martha’s Vineyard in December on an “Ice Station Zebra” level cold day and having a sandwhich tray spill all over my chest. Or starting the day number 15 for deicing in LaGuardia and at the end of my duty day shooting an NDB circling to land at mins at night to an uncontrolled field in Texas hill country where I had never been. Good times. Now I know well in advance where I am going and with some certainty know what arrival and approach I will get. Boring to some, fine with me.
As far as the job benefits are concerned, my health care is the same (United) but it is $60 a month. The dental and vision are excellent and are a few bucks a month. The flight passes are outstanding on SWA and my family and parents, who can fly unlimited, take full advantage of them. In addition, we get 16 round trip tickets per year, space available of course, to give to family and friends. We also have ZED agreements with most major airlines and can get space available passes, unlimited and the price is VERY reasonable. For example, I live on the East Coast and my folks could fly round trip from California on Delta for $90 each way per person. At SWA I can earn as little (with some minimums) or as much money as I want. Most of my coworkers fly between 100-120 trips a month (we are paid per trip, one trip is roughly 1.1 hours block). I average around 100 because I like my time off.
Don’t get me wrong, Netjets has become a career job and I have helped several guys from my reserve unit get hired by them. But, for me it was the right move. When guys from my reserve unit ask how things are going I tell them “twice as good as I thought it would be” and that is the truth.
Ezplt
P.S. I sure miss getting crew food, especially from Rudy’s in Teteboro. Sometimes I dream about it while I am eating “Pilot Pellets” i.e. peanuts, on a cross country. And you still get per diem after jamming your pie hole with that great food. What a scam!
04-14-2008, 05:49 AM
#2
Moderate Moderator
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Curator at Static Display
Posts: 5,681
Thanks
EZ:
Thanks for the perspective. Nicely written, too (except for "Skooled.") Most of the posts here have poor spelling and grammar. I started the post that asked the opposite question: Major guy going to NJ.
I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up, but at least I have more data to sift through.
Thanks for the perspective. Nicely written, too (except for "Skooled.") Most of the posts here have poor spelling and grammar. I started the post that asked the opposite question: Major guy going to NJ.
I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up, but at least I have more data to sift through.
04-14-2008, 06:57 AM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 157
I think it's a joke
Since he used the word "Skooled" in a sentense talking about home-schooling his children, I take it as humor.
Rott
Rott
Originally Posted by UAL T38 Phlyer
EZ:
Thanks for the perspective. Nicely written, too (except for "Skooled.") Most of the posts here have poor spelling and grammar. I started the post that asked the opposite question: Major guy going to NJ.
I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up, but at least I have more data to sift through.
Thanks for the perspective. Nicely written, too (except for "Skooled.") Most of the posts here have poor spelling and grammar. I started the post that asked the opposite question: Major guy going to NJ.
I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up, but at least I have more data to sift through.
04-14-2008, 07:30 AM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 727 VIP Left
Posts: 141
Originally Posted by Rottweiler
Since he used the word "Skooled" in a sentense talking about home-schooling his children, I take it as humor.
Rott
Rott
Nice post comparing the two.
Last edited by carl p; 04-14-2008 at 08:50 AM.
04-14-2008, 08:20 AM
#6
New ride...
Joined APC: Apr 2005
Posts: 534
Congrats to you, ezplt1. Everyone finds their niche and what works for them. Seems like you found yours. As arjmjj asked, are you commuting, because that is a large factor in QOL, and it can affect your sked preferrence. I commute, so week-on-week-off works very good for me. My wife has acclimated to it, and she likes it, too. (Hopefully not for bad reasons 
)
Again, congrats to you.
) Again, congrats to you.
04-14-2008, 09:08 AM
#7
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Another empty kitchen...UA 737 FO
Posts: 71
Great post ezplt1 
...Questions for ya...
I did a little corporate charter flying as an FA before going to the front of the plane. One of the nice things was that sometimes we would score a trip down to St. Martin or the like with a few day layover, so we could play or scuba, etc. That was one of the perks of the corp life.
But every so often we would get a trip that was orginally a NetJets job, and they seemed pretty tightly scheduled, 3-5 legs a day, short layover kind of thing. Were most of the trips built like that or were we just getting the crappy trips from NJ? Is there a separation of domestic and int'l flying, or is that according to a/c type you are flying?
The downside of part 135 for me was getting abused by the hurry up and wait, on-again-off-again of accomodating client skeds. That sometimes meant movement of my off days, or our dispatchers begging us to work on off days because the contract money was too good to turn down. At least at NJ, you did not have to deal with that, right?
Since schedule flexibility and maximizing days off are my priority, I prefer the airline life too.
...Questions for ya...I did a little corporate charter flying as an FA before going to the front of the plane. One of the nice things was that sometimes we would score a trip down to St. Martin or the like with a few day layover, so we could play or scuba, etc. That was one of the perks of the corp life.
But every so often we would get a trip that was orginally a NetJets job, and they seemed pretty tightly scheduled, 3-5 legs a day, short layover kind of thing. Were most of the trips built like that or were we just getting the crappy trips from NJ? Is there a separation of domestic and int'l flying, or is that according to a/c type you are flying?
The downside of part 135 for me was getting abused by the hurry up and wait, on-again-off-again of accomodating client skeds. That sometimes meant movement of my off days, or our dispatchers begging us to work on off days because the contract money was too good to turn down. At least at NJ, you did not have to deal with that, right?
Since schedule flexibility and maximizing days off are my priority, I prefer the airline life too.
04-14-2008, 09:31 AM
#8
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 89
I agree with esplt1. I too left NJ, although I left for a straight pt. 91 job. My main reason was scheduling. 7n7 schedule was brutal and from what I can tell, most guys don't like the 18 day schedule either. On the 7n7 schedule, I felt like I rarely got to see my family and the relationship with my wife was "strained".
Now with my current job, I make more than I did at NJ working 1-3 days a week and, get every weekend/holiday off. We also have set schedules so I know my schedule weeks in advance. I've been fortunate to land the job and some people I'm sure will tell me I'm crazy to leave the job security of a company such as NJ. Although, this current flight department has been around longer than NJ, nothing is very secure in today's economy.
NJ, as ezplt1 said, is a great career job, just make sure you know what you're getting yourself into in terms of scheduling etc.
Now with my current job, I make more than I did at NJ working 1-3 days a week and, get every weekend/holiday off. We also have set schedules so I know my schedule weeks in advance. I've been fortunate to land the job and some people I'm sure will tell me I'm crazy to leave the job security of a company such as NJ. Although, this current flight department has been around longer than NJ, nothing is very secure in today's economy.
NJ, as ezplt1 said, is a great career job, just make sure you know what you're getting yourself into in terms of scheduling etc.
04-14-2008, 09:40 AM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 574
Great post and right on time for me I have been considering NJ for some time now and the whole scheduling thing kept me from submitting the application. I have been asking around and the NJ guys i talk with say they love it and I can not for the life of me see why. I hate 4 days so how the hell can i do a 7day trip or a 5 day trip for that matter. Thanks.
04-14-2008, 10:15 AM
#10
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: KC-10 Both
Posts: 37
Excellent post ezplt1 and at the perfect time to help out. I've got one year until separation from the military and it's great to get differing points of view on a hot topic for myself and other guys in my boat. I just hope that someone is still hiring in a year. Thanks again.
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