Attention United Pilots
06-30-2008, 06:08 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: DD->DH->RU/XE soon to be EV
Posts: 3,732
Originally Posted by TripleMix
This is my first post here, but I got the link from the UAL MEC forum. This issue has me jazzed.
What is your problem? You seem to take some personal offense that United guys are ****ed off at this whole jumpseat deal, and you are trying to prove you understand the United MEC history better than anyone else. Why do you have such a bone to pick with United guys? Still frustrated that Independence didn't work out? Still frustrated that your pilot group voted for a failed business plan, and now you take some special sadism in pointing out other's mistakes?
What is your problem? You seem to take some personal offense that United guys are ****ed off at this whole jumpseat deal, and you are trying to prove you understand the United MEC history better than anyone else. Why do you have such a bone to pick with United guys? Still frustrated that Independence didn't work out? Still frustrated that your pilot group voted for a failed business plan, and now you take some special sadism in pointing out other's mistakes?
Funny, my dad spent 30+ years at UAL. Maybe it's the way you are reading it.
Originally Posted by contrail67
Education time....there is not 1 legacy or regional airline that went through BK without having their wages lowered. Had the airline not been put into BK, the wages would not have went to the level they are at....think before you type.
06-30-2008, 06:19 PM
#32
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Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 75
Originally Posted by dojetdriver
Well, congratulations on your first point. But can you show me where I'm "pi$$ed off" as you put in this thread as it relates to the JS issue? I've talked about pay rates and how they were negotiated down, but NOTHING about the JS issue. What is YOUR problem? Maybe you are mad because of the weakness your MEC showed in the past. Maybe you are also mad because a regional had the sack to tell your management where to go when YOUR OWN MEC didn't.
Funny, my dad spent 30+ years at UAL. Maybe it's the way you are reading it.
Yep, maybe you need to learn some reading comprehension. If the MEC had no say and the "company dropped the contract" as it was put, what do you think the rates would have been? I'll make it simpler for you, if the MEC didn't fight to retain SOME of it, they WOULD be lower. Don't know how you missed that in what I said. Read fully before you type.
Funny, my dad spent 30+ years at UAL. Maybe it's the way you are reading it.
Yep, maybe you need to learn some reading comprehension. If the MEC had no say and the "company dropped the contract" as it was put, what do you think the rates would have been? I'll make it simpler for you, if the MEC didn't fight to retain SOME of it, they WOULD be lower. Don't know how you missed that in what I said. Read fully before you type.
IM
06-30-2008, 06:22 PM
#33
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Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: DD->DH->RU/XE soon to be EV
Posts: 3,732
Originally Posted by Invisible Man
I think they would be what they are in our current contract. You don't seem to grasp that the mainline contracts were forced on them in BK. That's why their pay sucks. What excuse do the commuters have for their poor pay rates?
IM
IM
With the rise that was seen in mainline wages pre 9/11 there was a rise in regional wages as well.
With the decline in mainline wages, there has also been a decline in regional wages.
Again, chicken or egg?
06-30-2008, 06:38 PM
#34
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Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 75
Originally Posted by dojetdriver
What do you think drives regional pay rates up? Which direction do you think it flows?
With the rise that was seen in mainline wages pre 9/11 there was a rise in regional wages as well.
With the decline in mainline wages, there has also been a decline in regional wages.
Again, chicken or egg?
With the rise that was seen in mainline wages pre 9/11 there was a rise in regional wages as well.
With the decline in mainline wages, there has also been a decline in regional wages.
Again, chicken or egg?
What do you think mainline management used to pick our pay rates. Contracts at Regional airlines and airlines like jetblue.
Regional pay has always been way to low. And management will always use it as a whipsaw. So again it's the chicken and the egg argument. And that's why both mainline (giving up scope) and the regionals (accepting low wages) are to blame.
IM
06-30-2008, 06:57 PM
#35
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Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: DD->DH->RU/XE soon to be EV
Posts: 3,732
Originally Posted by Invisible Man
Exactly.
What do you think mainline management used to pick our pay rates. Contracts at Regional airlines and airlines like jetblue.
Regional pay has always been way to low. And management will always use it as a whipsaw. So again it's the chicken and the egg argument. And that's why both mainline (giving up scope) and the regionals (accepting low wages) are to blame.
IM
What do you think mainline management used to pick our pay rates. Contracts at Regional airlines and airlines like jetblue.
Regional pay has always been way to low. And management will always use it as a whipsaw. So again it's the chicken and the egg argument. And that's why both mainline (giving up scope) and the regionals (accepting low wages) are to blame.
IM
So it was regional pay rates they looked at when management only decided to give wide body CA's $300+/hr and narrow body $200+/hr?
Are you sure you want to make the statement that regionals "accept" low wages?
Using the logic you have in this thread, AWAC, COMAIR, ACA (pre I-Air), and SkyWest had that pay "forced" on them. They didn't get to "accept" it as you put. To take it even further, PCL and ASA have had to "accept" a passive concession as management has dragged thier feet. PCL is STILL in that position.
06-30-2008, 07:00 PM
#36
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Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 75
Originally Posted by dojetdriver
Your previous post was blaming the regionals for the majors low pay. Now you are saying "exactly" to what I said as far as it flowing DOWNHILL, not uphill. So what is your stance?
So it was regional pay rates they looked at when they decided to give wide body CA's $300+/hr and narrow body $200+/hr?
Are you sure you want to make the statement that regionals "accept" low wages?
Using the logic you have in this thread, AWAC, COMAIR, ACA (pre I-Air), and SkyWest had that pay "forced" on them. They didn't get to "accept" it as you put. To take it even further, PCL and ASA have had to "accept" a passive concession as management has dragged thier feet. PCL is STILL in that position.
So it was regional pay rates they looked at when they decided to give wide body CA's $300+/hr and narrow body $200+/hr?
Are you sure you want to make the statement that regionals "accept" low wages?
Using the logic you have in this thread, AWAC, COMAIR, ACA (pre I-Air), and SkyWest had that pay "forced" on them. They didn't get to "accept" it as you put. To take it even further, PCL and ASA have had to "accept" a passive concession as management has dragged thier feet. PCL is STILL in that position.
IM
06-30-2008, 07:03 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: DD->DH->RU/XE soon to be EV
Posts: 3,732
Originally Posted by Invisible Man
Never mind, your right.
IM
IM
BTW, I had to edit out the first paragraph due to a gaff on MY part, sorry.
06-30-2008, 07:16 PM
#38
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: DAL Pilot
Posts: 1,133
If United guys were being bumped out of their jumpseats by regional pilots, then the software issue would have been solved a LONG time ago! The UAX jumpseat coordinators have been working on this issue for a year, but with no resolution. UALPA has decided that it's not an important issue for them, so they haven't put the pressure needed to fix the problem. I agree that UAX pilots may be shooting themselves in the foot here, but the problem needs to be solved.
06-30-2008, 07:21 PM
#39
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: DAL Pilot
Posts: 1,133
Oh... and mainline pilots should have had some kind of protections written into their contracts to control the amount of flying that went to the regionals. Who would have ever thought that the RJ would have ever taken off like it did!? The smartest union in the world couldn't have predicted how the industry was going to change! One minute RJ's are just replacing props to small airports and the next minute they're running from SLC to ORD!!!
06-30-2008, 07:43 PM
#40
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Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 75
Originally Posted by dojetdriver
Well don't be a baby and bow out with a "you're right" comment, if you got something to debate with, keep going. I'll keep it going as long as it's civil.
BTW, I had to edit out the first paragraph due to a gaff on MY part, sorry.
BTW, I had to edit out the first paragraph due to a gaff on MY part, sorry.
Somebody blamed all this on mainline giving up scope.
I agreed they dropped the ball.
And I said the regionals flying for very low pay was also part of the problem.
Somebody said mainline pay wasn't much higher.
I agreed and said our contracts were forced on us in BK.
Unlike the regional contracts that where negotiated, voted on and accepted by the pilots with very low pay rates flying big jets.
Big difference between the two.
I think that both mainline and the regionals have some blame.
What else is there to debate?
I'm not going to change your mind and you probably wont change mine.
No reason to not be civil.
IM
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