Oh here we go. Typical degeneration into "my willy is bigger than your willy".

 

This is the sort of shortsightedness I expect from this type of pilot. I'm dealing with B6 types on the "other" forum that are cut of the same mold.

 

Saving the lawyer fees associated with going bankrupt to be competitive and profitable?

 

You've got to be kidding me... where was C360 between 1996-2006? I though so... non-existant! How can you say something so stupid?

The FACT that Gemini is still here after the worse aviation downturn in world history is proof positive that it's a viable long terms player.. what do you have other than the word of your new management that Cargo 360 is going to be here next year?

 

Dude, it was a joke.

3 darts to toss at you on your high-horse:
1. Many companies did not seek bankruptcy to weather the "worse aviation downturn in history". Chap 11 is a failure of everyone in the company to adjust to market conditions and protects shareholders/creditors - though in the airline world it appears to be a way to bypass management ability and labor negotiations. Cargo360 was not one of those, but many were. I don't know the facts behind Gemini's bankruptcy, but there has been more cargo than capacity for years (Cathay Pacific's annual report is the source, in regards to their expansion of cargo operations)
2. I'd call it an "major airline down turn" as Boeing, engine manufactures, leasing companies, several airlines and avionics companies maintained profitability during this time. There was still plenty of $ in aviation, just not on the business model many used.
3. Simple fact - there are more able (not qualified, as that definition varies) pilots on the market than there are jobs - so wages are going to go down. Unless ALPA turns into a guild (like stage workers, plumbers, lawyers or CPA's.), or it becomes exceedingly harder to become "able" (like adopting JAA requirements), that isn't going to change. That is a natural by-product of capitalism.

I'm sorry I'm not going to work for Gemini, and therefor protect your salary, benefits and work rules from market forces, but they didn't offer me an interview and my personal preference was/is not to work for a company that had proven they do not know how to run a profitable business - which has led me to dump a career in aviation as a whole.

Enjoy flying at Gemini.

 

Your point 1 is far off base... with the exception of AMR, WN, AirTran, B6, Fedex and UPS, I can't think of any airline that didn't got thru Ch11, and all of them had their hands out for uncle sam to send money and guarantees their way. Gemini was actually turned down for loan guarantees due to it's size being too small at the time. And for ACMI as well, with Atlas having a BK.. fact is the Ch11 that Gemini went thru would have occurred no matter who was at the helm as world cargo volume took a nose dive for 3 years from 2001-2004. the year 2005-6 so far for Gemini have been among the best its' had since it started in 1996, and the capital behind the company (Bayside Captial) is poised to grow, grow, grow.. so look out.

 

I have to take Sponge's side on this one. I know it's been tough years and I believe Gemini is a proven company. But right after 911 when all the ACMI carriers were flying there asses off, Gemini parked a couple of airplanes. Than they underbid some military contract flying that had them operating in the red for years. In 2005 there were new start-ups and expansion everywhere, Gemini's files BK. They now have ALPA and I know things will improve on both sides of the fence, but they've made mistakes.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with Gemini, just don't pretend the sun shines out of there &*(%^ either.

 

How so?

The fact is the BK was due in part to many variables, most of which however were related to the general slowdown in the economy COMBINED with rising fuel costs. I mean, you are aware that the only other two reputable ACMI's flying today (World, and Atlas) have both been in BK as well, right?... just because Gemini was able to ride out a bit longer (Atlas was in 2003, and World in 1999), that doesn't make Gemini's BK unrelated to this downturn. DAL also delayed their BK as long as possible, but their BK was nevertheless set into motion by the chain of evens subsequent to the 9/11 slowdown.. In the case of WLDA (World) they filed during a time when ACMI was indeed booming.

Bottom line, Cargo360 is coming into a good time, with Gemini having had one of their best years in 2005-6, so they've experienced no hardship, and have not been saddled with debt and economic hardships, yet they still appear to be heading down the Centurion bottom dweller road in terms of pilot pay/work rules..

 

Just to clarify, World wasn't BK in 1999. I've been at World sice 1996.

 

You're right, I stand corrected.. it was WorldComp a vender that filed in 1999.. I seem to recall World was in some financial straights back then however, but nevertheless... my point stands that Atlas and many others had to file.. as well as the "legacys" like USAir, America West, Delta, Northwest, United, etc.. for the same reasons.. economic slowdown with high fuel costs.