Time will tell... but the nickel and dime hiring process doesn't bode well in my view. I mean, apart from the initial interview at Gemini, they've paid for EVERYTHING! When they invited me back to the second interview, they paid full fare airfare (First Class on my return leg since I had to make a connection), and put me up in a hotel, provided transport to and from the office, and even re-imbursed the $65 cab ride for me to get to the DCA airport for that return flight..

Sorry, but that's Class... not just fancy website and paint jobs.

as for the pay rate, the devil is in the details... 60 hour guarantee? I thought 65 was bad at Gemini.. we should be aiming in the other direction.. and at least Gemini had a BK and survived 10 years during one of the worse times to be an airline, why's 360's? excuse for dropping the bar? I thought the had "A LOT OF MONEY"?

Anyway, like I said.. best of luck, you'll need it.

 

I agree with you that these start-up's have a long way to go before they have learned the lessons Gemini and others have. But as any smart business man will tell you. Save money where you can and then when your making money, save money where you can. I don't think start-ups like Cargo 360 and Focus have the reputation and solid financing to be able to give employees an edge. And until they have been around a while it will be hard for employees to unionize like Gemini has.

As for the money, sure they have A LOT OF MONEY, but that pot is being held by the investors. And if the investors think they are spending money needlessly, they will pull the plug.

 

It'll take you eight years as a Gemini Capt to make what a first year C360 Capt. is making, who's dropping the bar?

 

I agree. Even an experienced 121 pilot who never flew a 747 or any cargo operations would benefit from a year or so on the panel. Probably a lot of loadmaster-type stuff to learn, and you'll be a better F/O and Captain as a result.

I knew some of them at Delta---very sharp guys.

 

Nope, the F/E is more of a secretary than anything. He gets covered up in paperwork before the flight departs. No loadmaster kinda stuff, more like fueling schedule and calulating V-speeds. But your right on the benefical portion of being an F/E, it makes you systems knowledge go up

 

I suppose you are taking the pay rates from this site. On the face of it, it may appear that way but is far from the truth. Flew with two 8 year guys on the 11 the other day, they make $150k a year. Oh they were on OT as well so close to $200 an hour. Not bad to fly between MXP and JFK.
I know, I know, you are going to get a boatload of 74s and clean every ones clock....
I have never held Gemini up as a poster child for the ACMI sector, however you have individuals on this site who work for or who have been interviewed/hired by 360 who say "impressive company". Sorry to say this, but it is not.

Seems to be the people Cargo 360 are attracting are the ex-Delta people who took an early out. Retired military who can supplement their income and benefits (lack of) with their pension. Low time turbo prop folks, who want the experience to be able to move on in a few years.

Oh tell me about the way the per diem works? Dutch747 mentioned you only get it when you are not operating.

 

I've just been putting the info out: make of it what you will, and decide on your own what works for you.

For me, it comes down to Cargo360 represented an opportunity. IF Gemini were hiring and hired me too, then I would analyze my options, but it's a moot point because they did not.

For me, the people running the company, their attitude, leadership and business plan, combined with the opportunities as the company grows more than overcame any concerns I had about the other issues you point out. I think if you are concerned about paying for a drug screen or not getting per diem while they fed you while flying, they do not want you. An easy way to screen the applicants. Their attitude towards former military pilots was a nice break from some other places I had interviewed, and in fact the whole interview experience got me excited about their company. Plus, I knew what to expect from the guys I'd be flying with, as we all had similar backgrounds. Why is it a bad thing that they are hiring military retirees or recently separated folks who are in the financial position where they can take a chance on a startup? Maybe others should do the same? Maybe we have a different work ethic, experience or leadership quality they are looking for?

As it is, I took a non-flying job as that fit best with my current needs, eventual goals and desires.

Fogrunner, Gemini is obviously a better fit for you, and your comparisons will help others decide what fits for them. However, please do not make the assumption that everyone who interviewed with or hired by Cargo360 did not take hours talking to their network to compare the opportunities available to them. I did, and others on this board have too, and decided what was best for them, for what they offered and not because we were uninformed.

Enjoy your career at Gemini.

Spongebob

 

Well said.

 

Guys, Fog isn't about "My airline is better than yours" .. he's far form that. I think what he, I and some others earlier in this thread are saying is that we need to put an end to this "Race to the bottom" that the likes of Jet Blue, Virgin America and now Cargo360 represent.

Gemini has been thru thick and thin, and a BK recently, yet is still in business... so to hold their current contract up for close examination is hardly a fair bar to aim for.. look at World, and Atlas, both stronger now (Gemini is doing what it needs to get there too, in due time).. those are the ACMI standards now.. But even with all that said, the gutted contract that Gemini operates under still provides critical items like over-time, vacation, and max days on/off criterion that are not going to be found at a C360.. All I can say is that when the money pool dries out due to all of the costs involved in upstarts.. the managers will be all too tempted to abuse the pilots, since there is no work contract, and this is in the end a bad thing for all of us, not just C360.

 

Well Gemini is currently hiring. Upwards of 25 for the MD11.
Our DO is ex- Navy an Academy grad. 80% of the folks are ex-military.
I am looking to see where I said it was a bad thing to hire ex-military guys. A lot of the guys came from the KC10. My point as to who 360 is hiring are the people who can supplement their incomes, or who are looking to gain experience and move on.
Don't sell 360 as some type of ACMI utopia, who cannot even offer a basic benefit package. How silly does it sound not to offer basic per diem when on the road. Well we feed you on the a/c and we will give you $2 an hour for every hour you are on the ground in Incheon. What a deal... If you have seen some of the threads on Gemini you would realize that our interview process is very much a get to know you type of scenario. Can I spend 12-30 hours on the a/c and 2 weeks with this guy. Did you apply? Your total time just barely meets our minimums, the 73 type does not carry very much weight without experience unless someones goal is Southwest, hmm......

Oh and the four people who have been doing the interviewing recently, one Navy, one Air Force, one Army and one civilian. So insinuating that we or me are anti military is not going to work.